Author Topic: The Immortal Mind  (Read 3784 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2011, 03:09:45 PM »
You know, like the guy in the movies that charges a machine gun nest.  Is he a hero or does he just not know any better?  :rofl

Perfect!!!!!  :rofl :rofl
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Offline Penguin

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2011, 03:10:16 PM »
False, each new cell absorbs matter to increase its size.  In this case, you get: 1/2=0.5

Then each 0.5 gets another 0.5 from the matter around it.  The cell is then ready to divide again.

Your point raises the question, could one draw any useful conclusions when basing one's argument upon an imaginary, illogical world?

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Offline Yossarian

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2011, 03:30:24 PM »

Logic is a curse when applied to anything but logical subjects. Arithmatic is logical and thus requires logical thinking.Although, even in something like physics the 'impossible' becomes possible all the time. There are some people that believe space is comprised of 11 dimensions. How possible is that to the logic of yesterday. But that is a digression from my answer. My simple answer to you is that not everything in life or in the mind is logical and therefore logic is not always required.

Interesting idea - if I'm not misunderstanding you, are you saying that logic is usually one step behind (the latest development in) physics, and that it can't be used for it?  If so, I'd argue that once the new rules of physics are discovered, then logic will be applicable to them.

As to what you said about logic not always being required, I'd argue that it is always applicable provided you have sufficient knowledge about whatever you're applying it to - since by definition, something which not logical (I use illogical from an 'absolute' perspective, *not* as if you ask someone with an IQ of 1 whether orbital dynamics are logical - but as if you ask someone with perfect logical skills and perfect knowledge about physics) is illogical, and hence is *probably* wrong (provided that the basis for your logic is sound - if it isn't, then the 'if you put crap in, you get crap out' thing probably applies).  But I may have tied myself in knots here, so I'll shut up now. :lol


And RE: the posts about we can't know anything for sure: I agree, we can't.  The possibility always exists that everything we think is just an illusion, and that the entire world is just a fragment of our imagination.  But at the end of the day, so what?  I think a few assumptions are useful in this thing: namely, we exist, and the world is as it appears to our eyes.  Additionally (and this is where I think science comes in), we can make measurements of things in the world and the universe.  If we can provide 'reasonable' evidence that your measurements are accurate (such as repeating the measurements, or checking them with other related measurements), then you can use what I guess is a 'projection' of logic called 'mathematics', and use that to make a model which will predict your measurements from a given set of premises.  If your model continues to agree with future measurements, then that's more evidence for the model being correct.  However if ever it doesn't agree with your observations, then you probably need a new model.  In this way, I think logic can be applied to physics - but with the understanding that you may find things which appear illogical, but that they're not really illogical - you just don't understand yet why their logical.

And I think I went completely off track with that last paragraph, but my last sentence pretty much sums up at least some of my opinions on this topic. (I probably should have actually shut up when I said I would earlier :P)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 03:50:56 PM by Yossarian »
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Offline mensa180

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2011, 05:20:35 PM »
Quote
Causes come before effects

Probably... Retrocausality

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Offline mechanic

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2011, 11:07:59 PM »
Perhaps the cell division was not the best example, just thinking on the go.

If we are really going to hammer this out then someone explain to me the logic in love. It is totaly illogical to run into a burning building resulting in two people die instead of just one, but you will do that for someone you love without thinking logicaly about it at all.

Or even more confusing, explain to me the logic behind creation of the universe from supposed nothingness. Logic only applies to things we understand logicaly. So as I was saying, a philosopher must think beyond logic to find new logic. Once we have discovered how the universe appeared out of nothing, it will be logical, but to get there we must think illogicaly.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2011, 12:25:27 AM »
Perhaps the cell division was not the best example, just thinking on the go.

If we are really going to hammer this out then someone explain to me the logic in love. It is totaly illogical to run into a burning building resulting in two people die instead of just one, but you will do that for someone you love without thinking logicaly about it at all.

Or even more confusing, explain to me the logic behind creation of the universe from supposed nothingness. Logic only applies to things we understand logicaly. So as I was saying, a philosopher must think beyond logic to find new logic. Once we have discovered how the universe appeared out of nothing, it will be logical, but to get there we must think illogicaly.

Interesting Bat.  I think in the end folks can think too much, and forget to feel.

Not to somber it up too much, but after my son and daughter died, I ceased to feel for a long time.  I did an awful lot of thinking trying to explain it all, and there was no explanation.  All the thinking and trying to logic something so illogical did nothing but keep me from feeling.

Then the Mrs. comes home from Africa with a newborn that she found in a closet and I find myself holding my new son.  Nothing logical about it, but I remember the exact moment that I began to feel again and it was so powerful it physically hurt.   It was wonderful.  Where that bit we call 'love' comes from I have no idea, but you know what?  That's OK, I don't need an explanation.

I guess it's a bit like the old CPR rules, Look, Listen, Feel.   Then you can analyze it and talk about it :)
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Offline mechanic

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2011, 04:04:04 AM »
Not too somber, that is an extremely powerful emotional experience. It is generous that you choose to share it with us, thank you. :)
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Offline ink

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2011, 08:36:51 AM »


Or even more confusing, explain to me the logic behind creation of the universe from supposed nothingness. Logic only applies to things we understand logicaly. So as I was saying, a philosopher must think beyond logic to find new logic. Once we have discovered how the universe appeared out of nothing, it will be logical, but to get there we must think illogicaly.

there is no logic behind the universe being created from nothing, that's impossible....I would continue but I would have to talk about the creator.

Offline Westy

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2011, 11:57:35 AM »
Let's!!!

All hail


Offline Penguin

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2011, 12:13:36 PM »
Interesting Bat.  I think in the end folks can think too much, and forget to feel.

Not to somber it up too much, but after my son and daughter died, I ceased to feel for a long time.  I did an awful lot of thinking trying to explain it all, and there was no explanation.  All the thinking and trying to logic something so illogical did nothing but keep me from feeling.

Then the Mrs. comes home from Africa with a newborn that she found in a closet and I find myself holding my new son.  Nothing logical about it, but I remember the exact moment that I began to feel again and it was so powerful it physically hurt.   It was wonderful.  Where that bit we call 'love' comes from I have no idea, but you know what?  That's OK, I don't need an explanation.

I guess it's a bit like the old CPR rules, Look, Listen, Feel.   Then you can analyze it and talk about it :)

Actually, the 'love' you feel is just hormones.  Nothing else.  It is not logical, nor is it illogical.  There is no thought in it because the impulse does not reach your cerebrum.  The only reason that we 'require' love is that we grow up around it, and become addicted to it.

If you were to raise a child all by itself, (i.e. no social contact, or contact so diffuse that it cannot become attached) then it would not need love.  The child would seem strange to us, because we are mostly 'love junkies'.  However, it would function normally if exposed to more children like itself.

Love is not necessary.  Love is not logical; that is not a compliment to it.  Love is obselete, its only function was to keep the male around after mating to help the mother.

-Penguin

Offline Raphael

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2011, 12:16:46 PM »
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Offline mechanic

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2011, 01:14:07 PM »
Actually, the 'love' you feel is just hormones.  Nothing else.  It is not logical, nor is it illogical.  There is no thought in it because the impulse does not reach your cerebrum.  The only reason that we 'require' love is that we grow up around it, and become addicted to it.

If you were to raise a child all by itself, (i.e. no social contact, or contact so diffuse that it cannot become attached) then it would not need love.  The child would seem strange to us, because we are mostly 'love junkies'.  However, it would function normally if exposed to more children like itself.

Love is not necessary.  Love is not logical; that is not a compliment to it.  Love is obselete, its only function was to keep the male around after mating to help the mother.

-Penguin


The only part you got right is that love is not logical.
You have obviously no experience of love. I have never seen such an ignorant outlook on what love is. Another reason why you fail at philosophy.

I feel pity for you if you truly believe this junk.  
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Offline ink

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2011, 01:41:54 PM »
Actually, the 'love' you feel is just hormones.  Nothing else.  It is not logical, nor is it illogical.  There is no thought in it because the impulse does not reach your cerebrum.  The only reason that we 'require' love is that we grow up around it, and become addicted to it.

If you were to raise a child all by itself, (i.e. no social contact, or contact so diffuse that it cannot become attached) then it would not need love.  The child would seem strange to us, because we are mostly 'love junkies'.  However, it would function normally if exposed to more children like itself.

Love is not necessary.  Love is not logical; that is not a compliment to it.  Love is obselete, its only function was to keep the male around after mating to help the mother.

-Penguin

bro someone has seriously messed up your mind.

I grew up with out love, trust me love is very needed by us humans, it is the most powerful emotion there is, with out love we humans are husks of nothingness.

to say we don't need love, might as well say we don't need air to breath.

think about this, every thing we need to live Air, food, water, with out these three we would die. yet each one of those could kill us, LOVE is something we don't need to be alive, yet no matter how much we get of Love, it can not kill us, it strengthens us, gives us purpose, with out love there is no reason to live. this is why we were created LOVE plain and simple. LOVE is the ONLY reason we are alive.

I seriously feel for you, someone has messed up your mind, it saddens me to know you think like this, I pray that you will see the truth before its too late.     

Offline Sonicblu

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2011, 01:58:25 PM »
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Actually, the 'love' you feel is just hormones.  Nothing else.  It is not logical, nor is it illogical.  There is no thought in it because the impulse does not reach your cerebrum.  The only reason that we 'require' love is that we grow up around it, and become addicted to it.

You have so many logically fallacies here how would you know?  Love as nominalized is a concept. Love as a action is something else. Love the feeling is not just hormones, hormones is part of the process of how we sense the world, it is part of feed back.

It's like saying the pain of the bullet ripping into your flesh is JUST chemical reactions. It is the specific information it creates that is helpful.

YOU are consisted with your world view I will give you that, but its not going to help you in the long run.

Ya know your life is just mindless chemical reactions kind of world view is actually not beneficial for survival.

Let me put it this way.

FALSE.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: The Immortal Mind
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2011, 02:19:42 PM »
Actually, the 'love' you feel is just hormones.  Nothing else.  It is not logical, nor is it illogical.  There is no thought in it because the impulse does not reach your cerebrum.  The only reason that we 'require' love is that we grow up around it, and become addicted to it.

If you were to raise a child all by itself, (i.e. no social contact, or contact so diffuse that it cannot become attached) then it would not need love.  The child would seem strange to us, because we are mostly 'love junkies'.  However, it would function normally if exposed to more children like itself.

Love is not necessary.  Love is not logical; that is not a compliment to it.  Love is obselete, its only function was to keep the male around after mating to help the mother.

-Penguin

If you believe that crap, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. 
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