New Car!

[PJ_Godzilla]

I beg to differ.

Shuffler, you got me on that one. I wondered if someone would when I wrote it.

We DO have the Ford PAC. My point, however, was that we weren't saved from bankruptcy by DC. I'll stand on that.

Believe me, I'm not down with much of the PAC lobby effort. It - and its counterparts at the other OEMs, looks a lot like an oligopoly erecting barriers. How many small independent automakers still exist? Uh-huh. Those %$^$%&^$....

[PJ_Godzilla]

VED was setup to help pay for the motorways  over here in bankrupt blighty .  it goes up in stages low carbon  $60 a year  $130 $240  and much much higher for real gas guzzlers.  it does mean other taxes are a little lower.

Under some assumption that spending and revenue correlate - one that does not appear to govern, at least here (nor, come to think of it, there).

[PJ_Godzilla]

No matter what you think of Ford, you have to give them credit.  They have done what no other American car company could and they did it without any bailout money.  Seems to me they are taking care of business.

It also looks like they might be having some fun while they are at it.  They have earned the right to be proud of thier accomplishments.

Kudos, and keep it up.

Yeah. What he said.

I remember the dark days of '03. WE all knew the market had changed structurally and that our stuff was outdated junk. Then Derrick Kuzak came in and addressed us about "emotive, no-excuse cars and trucks". I recall being stunned to hear, in a meeting, a finance VP recognize that, were we to take content out of the then-upcoming Taurus in order to cut costs, we'd end up giving it back on the hood to sell the vehicle. It was then that  Irealized that Mulally and Kuzak were starting to have some impact on local thinking within the "layers of bureaucratic clay".

I remember in '06 when my Director asked aloud what it might feel like to work for a successful company.
After Q1, in our directorate all-hands, he said we ought to now know how it feels. Everybody sort of laughed. It's a tough industry these days. We're not totally out of the woods. We're trying to get our commercial paper grading back by paying down the debt and our sig hmi is causing us some software-based recent quality issues - but we're awake. My opinion w/r GM and Crapsler both is that the y will both be bankrupt again within a decade. Neither learned anything.

[icepac]

See Rule #14

[PJ_Godzilla]

See Rule #14

[CAP1]

you realize that that money was intended to not only save gm, but to save jobs in the usa? wanna guess where they decided to save jobs with the camaro? and it isn't the usa. that is honestly the only thing that'd stop me from considering a camaro, if i didn't like the mustang better. that's also why if i bought a chevy hotrod, i'd buy the vette.

[Shuffler]

Some pics with few of the different vehicles i rented over past years from Calgary,Alberta and hit the Rockies roads.I prefer 4x4 even in summer time, because  sometimes is snowing on high mountain passes, but are not easy to find at rental places especially in weekends. This  Ford Flex 4x4 was impressive, handling great on high grades snow covered roads, it's heavy well balanced weight per axles, good traction/ABS.

click to enlarge

When your interested in a vehicle.... asking someone who rents alot is a pretty good idea. They can tell you from experience what they have noted on each and in what conditions.


Now... I wonder if Ghi drives in F3 mode.

[Shuffler]

you realize that that money was intended to not only save gm, but to save jobs in the usa? wanna guess where they decided to save jobs with the camaro? and it isn't the usa. that is honestly the only thing that'd stop me from considering a camaro, if i didn't like the mustang better. that's also why if i bought a chevy hotrod, i'd buy the vette.

Yup..... odd it is made in Canada.

[CAP1]

Yup..... odd it is made in Canada.

 would you believe i never knew that till a camaro owner.....one whos brother almost got his into pinks all out when they were at englishtown......he told me. i think he said they've been made there since the mid 90's.

 i'd have preferred to see gm to bring the camaro back home.

[Penguin]

carbon monoxide has been reduced to less than half of what it was 30 years ago. it's nearly not there. same with hyudorcarbons. read up on catalytic converters, on how they work. they convert these gases, hence their name. if ya want, i'll go dig out a couple of my basic books, and copy some of the workings into here.

 as for the huge amounts of forests being taken down? it doesn't matter how much we clean up cars, or factories. if people are still on this earth breathing, then there will be co2. the solution, is to stop cutting down the forests.....and before you try...there really isn't that much need to take em down. and no, i'm not a tree hugger.

Other problems include:acid rain and ocean acidification.  You see, when CO₂ enters the upper troposphere, it interacts with water vapor to form carbonic acid.  This acid comes down and lowers soil pH, making it harder to grow crops.  Not only that, but the ocean absorbs large amounts of CO₂, and it too has become much more acidic.  This increase in acidity means that organisms must expend extra energy to expel the extra hydrogen ions, and this will kill them in droves.

Also, you must contend with the fact that the amount of pollutants rises annually due to population growth.  As countries become richer, their people will want to enjoy the finer parts of life, such as cars and mass produced items.  The production of these things often involves the burning of fuel, which produces CO₂.  Our planet's natural capacity to absorb our pollutants is already stretched, and as our populations grow this will put severe strain on our ecosystems.

Earth, a little blue ball of life in the void of space.  It's diversity and hospitability are astounding, millions of species, trillions of creatures.  Man is but one species, and it has transformed it from a primordial jungle into a gleaming civilization.  However, his rise is as tragic as it is illustrious, for Earth suffers as he builds- the rain melts rocks, the oceans become a dead void, and smog as thick soup blankets entire swaths of land.  Granted, this might sound like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that will occur a zillion years from now, but are you willing to say that destroying the planet of your grandchildren and great-grandchildren does not faze you?  Earth is not just your home or my home, it is the home of all mankind.  Pollution is our greatest test since the atom bomb, and if we fail, man's story will end.

-Penguin

[dedalos]

Other problems include:acid rain and ocean acidification.  You see, when CO₂ enters the upper troposphere, it interacts with water vapor to form carbonic acid.  This acid comes down and lowers soil pH, making it harder to grow crops.  Not only that, but the ocean absorbs large amounts of CO₂, and it too has become much more acidic.  This increase in acidity means that organisms must expend extra energy to expel the extra hydrogen ions, and this will kill them in droves.

Also, you must contend with the fact that the amount of pollutants rises annually due to population growth.  As countries become richer, their people will want to enjoy the finer parts of life, such as cars and mass produced items.  The production of these things often involves the burning of fuel, which produces CO₂.  Our planet's natural capacity to absorb our pollutants is already stretched, and as our populations grow this will put severe strain on our ecosystems.

Earth, a little blue ball of life in the void of space.  It's diversity and hospitability are astounding, millions of species, trillions of creatures.  Man is but one species, and it has transformed it from a primordial jungle into a gleaming civilization.  However, his rise is as tragic as it is illustrious, for Earth suffers as he builds- the rain melts rocks, the oceans become a dead void, and smog as thick soup blankets entire swaths of land.  Granted, this might sound like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that will occur a zillion years from now, but are you willing to say that destroying the planet of your grandchildren and great-grandchildren does not faze you?  Earth is not just your home or my home, it is the home of all mankind.  Pollution is our greatest test since the atom bomb, and if we fail, man's story will end.

-Penguin

But CAP said trees use CO2 for good    Where did you get all this misinformation and what is your agenda?

[CAP1]

But CAP said trees use CO2 for good    Where did you get all this misinformation and what is your agenda?

 plankton use it too.

[CAP1]

Other problems include:acid rain and ocean acidification.  You see, when CO₂ enters the upper troposphere, it interacts with water vapor to form carbonic acid.  This acid comes down and lowers soil pH, making it harder to grow crops.  Not only that, but the ocean absorbs large amounts of CO₂, and it too has become much more acidic.  This increase in acidity means that organisms must expend extra energy to expel the extra hydrogen ions, and this will kill them in droves.wasn't it you that said on the other board, that co2 is heavy enough that it doesn't rise, causing problems?

Also, you must contend with the fact that the amount of pollutants rises annually due to population growth.  As countries become richer, their people will want to enjoy the finer parts of life, such as cars and mass produced items.  The production of these things often involves the burning of fuel, which produces CO₂.  Our planet's natural capacity to absorb our pollutants is already stretched, and as our populations grow this will put severe strain on our ecosystems.

Earth, a little blue ball of life in the void of space.  It's diversity and hospitability are astounding, millions of species, trillions of creatures.  Man is but one species, and it has transformed it from a primordial jungle into a gleaming civilization.  However, his rise is as tragic as it is illustrious, for Earth suffers as he builds- the rain melts rocks, the oceans become a dead void, and smog as thick soup blankets entire swaths of land.  Granted, this might sound like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo that will occur a zillion years from now, but are you willing to say that destroying the planet of your grandchildren and great-grandchildren does not faze you?  Earth is not just your home or my home, it is the home of all mankind.  Pollution is our greatest test since the atom bomb, and if we fail, man's story will end.

-Penguin

 you realize that the earth is going to keep doing what it does, regardless of what we do, right?

[Skuzzy]

Ok, this is getting very derailed.  Do we really need, yet another, thrashing about the environment?

[Tigger29]

Ok, this is getting very derailed.  Do we really need, yet another, thrashing about the environment?

Danggit Skuzzy.. I've spent the last few minutes compiling an well though out and educated rebuttal of Penguin's passage from a science book and it just occurred to me that it'll just get skuzzified.

That's OK though.. this whole thread has gotten WAY off track!  Back to the original discussion guys!