catalina

[gyrene81]

you know how many pby's were actually active as "black cat's"? wasn't 4000, or even 400...

vp-12 had 5 operational radar equipped pby's starting in december 42 to feb/mar 45...over 200 missions. 5 other squadrons were subsequently outfitted with similarly equipped pby's...in limited quantity. patrols were not performed by full squadrons at any one time, with the greatest successes in night operations.

the majority of wwii pby's (series 1-6) served in s.a.r., recon, training and domestic patrol roles...due to their documented vulnerability to japanese fighters in the daylight.

u.s. navy pby units of the pacific war, louis dorny. black cats and dumbos, mel crocker.

[AWwrgwy]

I think I found the source which basically lumps any PBY squadron that operated at night and dropped bombs as "Black Cat" operations versus VPB-54, known as "The Black Cats".

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/

I have no argument that PBY VP squadrons in the Pacific bombed stuff at night but they certainly are not all "Black Cat" squadrons.




wrongway

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Why do they all have to be "Black Cat" squadrons in order for the Catalina to be viable as an ordnance carrying naval attack platform? There's no basis for that position. Hell, a plane that served in action in squadron strength is a viable candidate for AH II. ONE "Black Cat" squadron is therefore sufficient evidence that the Catalina is viable. Anything after that, and there is plenty, is merely supporting evidence. If the requirement was for every squadron and every plane and every pilot to see enemy action, we wouldn't have any planes to fly.

[waystin2]

Hell, a plane that served in action in squadron strength is a viable candidate for AH II.

This is requoted for truth.  All other deciding factors are subjective.

[DemonFox]

Well now that some one brings uphe PBY  Ack-Ack is right not all but MOST PBY where armed with bombs, torpedo, or depth charges. Some one said rotate from the pacific to the east coast and you know that ALL the PBY serving in the Atlantic where there for searching for U-Boats and where armed with depth charges and at the same time they fulfilled there search and rescue jobs looking for people.

In the pacific there was only one "The Black Cat" squadron but many other squads did Black Cat roles like night bombing. Even at the the battle of Midway in day light the PBY's engaged enemy ships.

Point being big +1 for the PBY-5A Catalina.

[AWwrgwy]

Why do they all have to be "Black Cat" squadrons in order for the Catalina to be viable as an ordnance carrying naval attack platform?

They don't.

But when I think of "Black Cat" Squadron I see black PBYs with modified armament and added guns, not a PBY flying at night with bombs.

It's like seeing a P-40 with a shark mouth and saying, "look, Flying Tigers".

Funny thing is, until Krusty said anything, Ack-Ack seems to have always poo-poo'd the addition of a slow, lumbering, lightly armed PBY. Now it's become an uber night bomber that was sinking ships all over the place.


wrongway

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. I think he's saying the historical basis for adding the PBY is sound. And he is correct. He hasn't said anything in this thread about how effective it would be in AH II.

[morfiend]

[quote author=Ack-Ack link=topic=314925.msg4085872#msg4085872 date=1308000380


Whether or not it has a place in AH, that I'm not trying to debate or convince anyone of.  I am, however, correcting the false claims put out by you and others about the PBY's wartime service record.


ack-ack
[/quote]



  Agreed Hilts, as he clearly states in my quote above!



     

[Beefcake]

Regardless of what it did and didn't do, I would love to see the PBY added to the game. The next scenario is Coral Sea and I wish I could fly one as a scout in that event.

[guncrasher]

Regardless of what it did and didn't do, I would love to see the PBY added to the game. The next scenario is Coral Sea and I wish I could fly one as a scout in that event.

that thing is do slow scenario will be over before you get close to anything.

semp

[Noir]

that thing is do slow scenario will be over before you get close to anything.

semp

you'd get there faster in a PT boat 

[tmetal]

IIRC PBY's where used by the Brittish in the ETO for recon/anti-sub patrols right. Why doesn't anybody ever mention the ETO in these PBY wish threads?  Personally, I would like to see the eventual inclusion of the PBY into AH but there is a long list of planes that should be included/remodeled before it is seen flying through the digital skys of aces high.

[Krusty]

tmetal: I was referring to its full service in all areas (4000+ craft produced) domestic and foreign.

Nobody is saying the plane fails to meet any of the criteria for AH inclusion. Nobody is saying it didn't see some combat.

What Ack-Ack is saying is absurd, though. Might as well proclaim "All Bf109s shot down P-51s" or "All B-17s bombed Berlin"...

[tmetal]

Thanks Krusty, I understood your figures. I wasn't trying to dispute the numbers, just pointing out that people seem to talk about the Catalina in regards to the PTO with no mention of its service in the ETO. Not picking on anyone in particular; it is just a generalization I have noticed over the months that I have been a member of these forums.

Quick question for ack-ack (or anyone who might know). When the crews rotated from recon patrol to the anti-shipping raids on the IJN (or the other way around), did they bring "their" plane with them or did they just replace an outgoing crew on a plane already at the base of operations for these IJN raids?