Roll Rate..

[Puma44]

"Getting out of phase" is important when you have someone on your six following your every move. He may be able to turn better, but that won't mean anything if he can't turn in the right direction in time. By timing your direction changes, and being careful not to fly in front of his guns, you can get farther and farther away from his nose.

Staying out of his guns requires a LOT of experience on both ends of the fight so you can know where your opponent can and can't put his nose right now, so you can just keep flying to where he can't.

I hope you can understand that and I don't end up looking like a daydreaming idiot...

You have the concept down but, I believe "out of phase" is more appropriately describing electricity.  Maneuvering "out of plane" with an opponent is what you are describing in relation to BFM.  Doing this "maneuvering out of plane" also changes your lift vector in relation to the aircraft you are jousting against.  

[TequilaChaser]

"Out of Phase" is also used in BFM

check out Badboy's  Rolling Scissors tutorial film on the Rolling Scissors Maneuvering where it discusses being "out of phase"

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/rollingscissors/rollingscissors.htm


hope this helps

TC

[RTHolmes]

You have the concept down but, I believe "out of phase" is more appropriately describing electricity.

same thing. imagine viewing a flat scissors from the top, 2 identical aircraft. looks like a couple of sine waves with a small but constant phase shift (the reaction time of the pursuer). now 2 aircraft, same turn rate and speed but different roll rates. the "wavelength" of the faster rolling aircraft will be less than the slower one, so as the scissors progresses, they become more and more out of phase.

[VonMessa]

190's don't turn well, roll rate is all they got. You GOT! to cut throttle and try to roll and kick rudder to get to fly in from of u. I'll make sure to post films about how to use the roll rate to a advantage

Perfect

Just a warning, be prepared for the rash of "You stick stirrer" whines once you get the hang of properly executing this maneuver 

Some folks just can't grasp the concept of not anticipating when the guy in front of you is going to slow down, nor the importance of a well-timed skid (or the difference between a skid and a slip for that matter) 

 

[pervert]

I'd like to see some film of these fantastic manevours in action, and how you are using roll rate to acheive them. A lot of this sounds like a load of balls me to me 

[Puma44]

Seems we are talking about the same thing, just some semantic differences in describing out of plane maneuvering vs in plane maneuvering and use of the lift vector in managing an overshoot.  Good discussion!  

[Puma44]

I'd like to see some film of these fantastic manevours in action, and how you are using roll rate to acheive them. A lot of this sounds like a load of balls me to me  

Check out TC's link below, it's a good visualization.   

[The Fugitive]

Seems we are talking about the same thing, just some semantic differences in describing out of plane maneuvering vs in plane maneuvering and use of the lift vector in managing an overshoot.  Good discussion!  

Out of plane maneuvering is the maneuvers you do to avoid your crew chief AFTER making a SAPP landing!  

[JOACH1M]

http://www.mediafire.com/?d9jp6o60io6o4sp

[Puma44]

Out of plane maneuvering is the maneuvers you do to avoid your crew chief AFTER making a SAPP landing!   

...it also works quite well for that also. 

[JOACH1M]

http://www.mediafire.com/?d9jp6o60io6o4sp

I got 1 more just gotta find it

[Tr1gg22]

Thanks for all the replies !!S!!

[WOZ30BAT]

http://www.mediafire.com/?d9jp6o60io6o4sp

Good film. I watched with the recorded views & I would like to know how you got some of those views? Were you in the DA?

[JOACH1M]

Good film. I watched with the recorded views & I would like to know how you got some of those views? Were you in the DA?

sorry i dont understand this question.

[GNucks]

sorry i dont understand this question.

When you moved your head position around inside the cockpit it caused the head position in the film viewer to actually move outside the plane. You may have never went into F3 mode (especially if you were in the MA, which you were) but the film viewer records how long you held down the button, not where you actually moved your head.