Details for Jetweek June 24-30, 2011

[Oddball-CAF]

For those of you who want icons, I've just turned them ON to 2.5k. enjoy!

Mine were vanishing when guys were OTD. Is that supposed to be happening per the setup?

[Shifty]

Mine were vanishing when guys were OTD. Is that supposed to be happening per the setup?

Yes, Jaeger set the icons to turn off below 500 ft. We probably should put it in the MOTD write it into the MOTD. Thanks for bringing it up. 

[captain1ma]

check it out boys and girls, FREE JETS AND B29'S!!! ICON SETTINGS=5K FOR BOTH SIDES.  fighting is savage to say the least. fights have been pretty clean. everyone is having a great time! check it out, bring a friend!

[Shuffler]

The Old style Ava and the SEA events are two different things.   The old style was just furbal dogfights and the times I was in there was toward  the lower altitudes.(which IMO is what defines a dueling arena).  THE SEA wednesdays, on the otherhand, has objectives whether it be a fight, escort, bomb, jabo,  and the LCA regularly flies there with numbers.    The difference?   The LCA didnt fly the AvA arena because it did not provide an objective (forward sweep, cap, escort, bomb, jabo).    Dogfighting should be about knocking out all planes,  not reupping low and get fast to a fight,  rinse repeat.   It also should be about pushing down the enemy, get a cap, so the other forces can get in.   Historical context in entirety 24/7.

Want AvA historical situations and just dogfight?  Fine, then propose that the objective is to reduce the enemy's airplane availability at an airbase.  If a base has 20 aircraft, and one gets shot down,  there's  19  left.   The airfield with 0 airplanes changes sides, and the dogfight continues.  All until the war is won by the enemy who has moved the battlefront the most.   Now that would be a purpose of dogfighting in a historical arena match-up.

The new AvA setup now provides an objective and some have started to enjoy this arena (fighter engagement, escort, bomb, jabo).

So in your opinion it should be for the win the war types now.... ahhhhhh

lol we all have our ideas I only know it used to be a lot of fun and had some of the better sticks showing up for the fun.

The good thing is that folks can still fight while the bomber types do what they do. It'll all reset sometime and those who live for the reset will be happy and the fighters can keep fighting and be happy. Limiting planes will make it like LW against EW then the folks who just like the fight will stay and the others who like the latest, fastest bird will go away. In this instance the P-40 is a lot of fun.

[gldnbb]

So in your opinion it should be for the win the war types now.... ahhhhhh

lol we all have our ideas I only know it used to be a lot of fun and had some of the better sticks showing up for the fun.

The good thing is that folks can still fight while the bomber types do what they do. It'll all reset sometime and those who live for the reset will be happy and the fighters can keep fighting and be happy. Limiting planes will make it like LW against EW then the folks who just like the fight will stay and the others who like the latest, fastest bird will go away. In this instance the P-40 is a lot of fun.

And in this week's context,  the B29 availability allowed a squad mate to want to come along,  and learn how to manual calibrate both far away from target and close to target (real world practice that will have them coming back, which also trickle into wanting to participate in more sea events.).  And it wasn't a milk run either,  since an enemy JET pilot got a chance to try high-altitude interception and the bombers got a chance to practice formation flying and gunnery practice.

And afterward I stuck around to 'duel'  with the other jet pilots for kicks and grins.   Also, in the past two weeks,  4 additional squad mates have enjoyed the historical setup   (two squad mates for dog-fighting,   two squad mates for bombing targets to achieve an objective). 

These set ups bring nuances that are more than just 'winning the war'.
The sorties (fighting, or bombing, shooting down bombers, or escorting) feel now they more have a purpose.  All those dynamics are much more diverse than just purely dueling with historic planeset, which often rinse repeated low on the deck (of those occasions I had passed by they were always all low)

As for numbers, so far have seen 22 players online,  with 3 as a bomber on the friendly side,    1  as a enemy fighter intercept,   then one as a fighter escort,  and the rest still as dogfighters or on the other side as another bomber.    And I often said in the past,  what's the point of setting up a historic fighter dueling arena with bombers and gv's available when they can't produce results?

[jimson]

My personal philosophy is that while dogfighting can and does occur within the context and as a byproduct of a setup that has strategic objectives, a strategy game cannot occur within the context of a setup that only emphasizes dogfighting.

Automatic resets are not a goal in the AvA because we don't have the right tools to make them work for us.

When they occur they are unintended.

We can however, manually tally objectives and enable certain results from meeting those objectives.

My plan for these type of setups is to make something other than base capture the main objective. Base capture may be used as a stepping stone to get to the other objectives, but I do want something different from an all out MA base grabfest, something that has a little different taste.

With the arena already limited, I don't feel that confining it to a 2 sided limited plane dueling arena is a recipe for success with todays player base, but I do want to try to make it so all type players feel welcome, including the dogfight just for the sake of dogfighting guys.

I only speak for myself here, not for the staff as a whole.

What Jaeger did with this week is add some more aspects to give more variety to the setup and I think he has been successful with it.

[Shuffler]

And in this week's context,  the B29 availability allowed a squad mate to want to come along,  and learn how to manual calibrate both far away from target and close to target (real world practice that will have them coming back, which also trickle into wanting to participate in more sea events.).  And it wasn't a milk run either,  since an enemy JET pilot got a chance to try high-altitude interception and the bombers got a chance to practice formation flying and gunnery practice.

And afterward I stuck around to 'duel'  with the other jet pilots for kicks and grins.   Also, in the past two weeks,  4 additional squad mates have enjoyed the historical setup   (two squad mates for dog-fighting,   two squad mates for bombing targets to achieve an objective). 

These set ups bring nuances that are more than just 'winning the war'.
The sorties (fighting, or bombing, shooting down bombers, or escorting) feel now they more have a purpose.  All those dynamics are much more diverse than just purely dueling with historic planeset, which often rinse repeated low on the deck (of those occasions I had passed by they were always all low)

As for numbers, so far have seen 22 players online,  with 3 as a bomber on the friendly side,    1  as a enemy fighter intercept,   then one as a fighter escort,  and the rest still as dogfighters or on the other side as another bomber.    And I often said in the past,  what's the point of setting up a historic fighter dueling arena with bombers and gv's available when they can't produce results?

Now you consider it a training ground for the SEA. That may well be what it ends up being.

The same training can be done in the Training Arena.  Fighters can train there too.


Oh well ... hopefully it can find another nitch different from what it used to be.

[captain1ma]

And I often said in the past,  what's the point of setting up a historic fighter dueling arena with bombers and gv's available when they can't produce results?

Cause its FUN!!!

[gldnbb]

Now you consider it a training ground for the SEA. That may well be what it ends up being.

The same training can be done in the Training Arena.  Fighters can train there too.


Oh well ... hopefully it can find another nitch different from what it used to be.

You are partially mis-understanding my point.   Yes although it is a training device for for SEAs (and FSO's),  it is historical  FUN  participating in results based context (and it is score tallying,  not winning the war or arena reset).  It brings in the guys to have fun in a historical manner,  both dogfighting, bombing, jaboing.   It adds to arena numbers,  allows guys who are tired of bombing then try fighters in a historical context and vice versa.    The 'training device'  is just an added bonus.

Dueling, which is what you are doing,  is a limited fun time for those limited few (as seen by AvA low numbers).   Take up a fighter,  come in  with less than 8K  and dogfight on the deck,  and escape even lower to hide among trees since no icons in certain setups hide you from the enemy.  This is not what I consider a sustained fun time.   Rinse wash repeat a few times,  and move onto another arena    

Besides which, using your argument,  dueling can be found in the dueling arena.

Jaeger's experiment is a great one,  allowing both dogfights to occur and  bombers/jabos to achieve objectives.   I really don't see a problem here that you're carrying on about.  Again,  it's not winning the war that is the set up but achieving goals or dogfighting.


If you're still not clear... Then consider reading a different way of putting it
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,315344.0.html

Our goal (vision) was to create an arena that attempted to simulate real historical and environmental settings pilots faced during WWII.  We do this using weekly setups that attempt to balance the gameplay, available aircraft and vehicles, through historical maps to give a 'be there' feeling for a week at a time, not 3 hours on a weekend.   In a nutshell, that is our vision and mission for the AvA (from the admins).

We're not the MA and we're not the SEA.  We can't compete against them and we really have no intention.  What we would like is for pilots to tell us what is missing from both the SEA and MA and we attempt to fill that gap.  Hence - the current no enemy icons, realistic bombsights, wind/turbulance, clouds, historical maps, the whole shebang. Call it the 'realism theatre' - but we know what we're not, and we kind of take pride in that.

Knowing that going forward, is there anything else we can add to give our arena that flavour that enhances gameplay and realism of historical settings?

[gldnbb]

Cause its FUN!!!

For a limited few!    For the majority,  there is  NO fun  in taking a  bomber looking for a dogfight when everyone else is in a fighter.  And no fun dropping bombs  when it can't do a thing to an arena (because in the old system the arena rebuilds while the # of pilots required for capture were not willing to spend time in an arena with 1 week map rotation little tangible results)   and most bomber pilots don't go looking for a dogfight since the rest of the guys are in fighters.  Taking  C47's and M3's were pointless  (again  lack of pilot numbers,  and map rotates out in a week).

[captain1ma]

ME163's are activated in the AVA. there is no perk cost associated with using them. they are free..... Cause its fun!

don't forget the 163 alt challenge for bragging rights. i will list top 3 altitude pilots. must send film to me.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,315351.0.html

[captain1ma]

thanks to everyone that participated this week. it was great fun, we'll do it again in 6 months! have a great 4th of July weekend!

<S> to all!

[Shuffler]

thanks to everyone that participated this week. it was great fun, we'll do it again in 6 months! have a great 4th of July weekend!

<S> to all!

No fireworks here. We have been so dry so long.