Author Topic: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft  (Read 605 times)

Offline flight17

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Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« on: July 10, 2011, 11:19:44 PM »
We were told last month that an A-6 intruder was available to us for 1500 dollars total. We then found out that someone would put up 1000 of that and we would just have to pay 500 plus the costs of the shipping. The plane is in Willamsport, PA and we are located near Pittsburgh.

Our problem is that we cant figure out a way to get it here. Its wings fold, but even when folded its still to wide to be trucked. We went to look at the plane but couldnt find any location where the entire wings would be removed, but we dont have anyone that knows the plane either.

So hopefully someone here worked on it or knows someone that did. If you do, can you possibly find out for us or tell me if its even possible to remove the entire wing? I would like to be able to find out before this Thursday so i can bring it up at board meeting and let them know, because if there is a way to truck it here, we will proceed to get the plane.

Its engines have ran within the last month, but its not currently airworthy. So we cant fly it here even if we could find a pilot.

Its really a beautiful plane and I would hate to see it scrapped.
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Offline LThunderpocket

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 11:21:46 PM »
did i read it wrong...you bought an A-6 for 1500?

im thinking that this might be a scam.especially if someone is putting up 1000$
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 11:26:49 PM »
If it will fly you can apply for a ferry permit with the FAA
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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 11:39:26 PM »
If it will fly you can apply for a ferry permit with the FAA

Its engines have ran within the last month, but its not currently airworthy. So we cant fly it here even if we could find a pilot.

...
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2011, 11:41:15 PM »
...

I thought he was reffering to the annual inspection.
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Offline flight17

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2011, 11:41:52 PM »
did i read it wrong...you bought an A-6 for 1500?

im thinking that this might be a scam.especially if someone is putting up 1000$

nope, surplus aircraft are always cheap. What you might have missed from my other threads is that we are a Museum (non-profit), so they come pretty cheap.  We got an F-15A for free two years ago, but we were then charged 5000 by the State of PA after we got it, but were never told anything about the charge prior to shipping it up here from Georgia.

The person putting up 1000 dollars is a member i believe, but i cant remember for certain if he is or not.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 11:43:52 PM by flight17 »
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 11:42:41 PM »

nope, surplus aircraft are always cheap. What you might have missed from my other threads is that we are a Museum (non-profit), so they come pretty cheap.  The person putting up 1000 dollars is a member i believe, but i cant remember for certain if he is or not.

What is keeping it from being airworthy?
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Offline flight17

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2011, 11:48:17 PM »
Im not exactly sure, it hasnt flown since 96 i believe, but its been kept in good enough shape that the engines are run periodically. I think its more along the lines of inspections though.

Plus, even if we could fly it and could find a pilot for it, it would take thousands of dollars worth of fuel to get it back here. And we cant waste that type of money when we have 5 aircraft currently in restoration (T-34, T-28, F-24, Funk Model B and a Cessna 150) plus all the costs of just operating the hangar and museum.
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Offline Tupac

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2011, 11:49:47 PM »
Im not exactly sure, it hasnt flown since 96 i believe, but its been kept in good enough shape that the engines are run periodically. I think its more along the lines of inspections though.

Plus, even if we could fly it and could find a pilot for it, it would take thousands of dollars worth of fuel to get it back here. And we cant waste that type of money when we have 5 aircraft currently in restoration (T-34, T-28, F-24, Funk Model B and a Cessna 150) plus all the costs of just operating the hangar and museum.

Oh ok. I figured it was inspections.
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Online Devil 505

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2011, 11:59:23 PM »
Dont forget to considder the height of the aircraft, it may be too tall to fit under most overpasses.
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Offline LThunderpocket

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2011, 12:06:44 AM »

nope, surplus aircraft are always cheap. What you might have missed from my other threads is that we are a Museum (non-profit), so they come pretty cheap.  We got an F-15A for free two years ago, but we were then charged 5000 by the State of PA after we got it, but were never told anything about the charge prior to shipping it up here from Georgia.

The person putting up 1000 dollars is a member i believe, but i cant remember for certain if he is or not.

oh ok,i forgot that you have a museum.im gonna have to look into this surplus aircraft
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Offline Golfer

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2011, 12:28:06 AM »
I can find you an Intruder or Prowler pilot but probably not one that would fly the airplane in it's current state. The wings should be able to come off but I believe the main spar is one solid piece (I may well be wrong about that, I know next to nothing about them) which would add some complexity in it's removal. I don't think you'd have any height issues on interstates with the airplane loaded on a flat bed. You also don't need to have it on it's wheels during transport but could cradle it to save the extra few feet if need be.

The maintenance required to get a jet going again that's been sitting for 10+ years is going to be pretty involved but I don't have any maintenance manuals to offer for reference. The wings will come off however since rewinging them was a project toward the end of their time in service.  It could be as simple as 2 bolts for all I know. Sounds like a neat project. If you guys are that short on cash and actually would get the thing on display I'd chip in a few bones to the cause.

Offline Stoney

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2011, 12:38:30 AM »
We were told last month that an A-6 intruder was available...

Try getting in touch with the Naval Aviation Depot (NADEP) at MCAS Cherry Point, NC or at NAS Norfolk, VA.  Both facilities do depot level maintenance, and if I remember correctly, both are able to do work on A-6 airframes.  They may have some resources available to you.  Especially with respect to things like wing removal.  I don't have contact information for either of them.  Second, there are VAQ and VMAQ squadrons at NAS Oceana and MCAS Cherry Point that may have personnel that can assist or give you some information.  I know about 15 years ago, the VMAQ squadrons at CP sort of got together and restored an A6E aircraft that is now on display on base, right near the VMAQ hangars.  The good thing about the NADEPs are that even though the A-6s are pretty much gone from the inventory, a lot of the guys and gals that work their are retired/former military  types that may have come from the A-6 community.  I'm sure both have public relations offices that you may be able to work with.  I don't know if NAS Willow Grove will have any resources that could help, seeing how the base is closing in September.

Either way, keep us informed and good luck.
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Offline flight17

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 01:41:53 AM »
I can find you an Intruder or Prowler pilot but probably not one that would fly the airplane in it's current state. The wings should be able to come off but I believe the main spar is one solid piece (I may well be wrong about that, I know next to nothing about them) which would add some complexity in it's removal. I don't think you'd have any height issues on interstates with the airplane loaded on a flat bed. You also don't need to have it on it's wheels during transport but could cradle it to save the extra few feet if need be.

The maintenance required to get a jet going again that's been sitting for 10+ years is going to be pretty involved but I don't have any maintenance manuals to offer for reference. The wings will come off however since rewinging them was a project toward the end of their time in service.  It could be as simple as 2 bolts for all I know. Sounds like a neat project. If you guys are that short on cash and actually would get the thing on display I'd chip in a few bones to the cause.

When we brought the F-15 back, we had two semis plus our own trailer. The fuselage was on one trailer on its belly and the wings, horizontal stabilizers and vertical stabilizers were on the second. It was just a little oversized.
Your more than welcome to chip in if you want though, we always accept donations.

It’s not that we are short on cash per say, it’s just that the way that we are currently set up, we are completely self-sufficient. We never seem to get grants either. We have some investments and we have general funds for the Museum itself and each aircraft. If our finances ever drop below a certain point, we will sell a project in restoration before we do anything else.  But all of our money either come from donations or from air shows.

The aircraft that are in restoration only get their money through our four fund raisers during the year (a pig roast, a hangar dance, selling placemat ads and our aviation appreciation day). Our flying aircraft get appearance fees at airshows and our C-123 actually can make enough money during the air show season to support our whole outfit to a degree. With the C-123, 1/3 of all profits must be sent to the official owner of the plane, 1/3 goes to the 123's own general fund (money for its maintenance and to keep it flying) and the last 1/3 (as of this year) will be put into another fund that will be used to provide needed money for the restoration project(s) that really need it, but currently don’t have it. Once the planes start flying and earning money, they will then payback the money they used into that "restoration fund".

 But to make sure that we can continue on into the future, we really can't afford to spend that type of money to get a plane in flying condition and then actually fly it the couple hundreds of miles just to put it back on static display. We don’t intend to fly it even though we could if we really wanted to.  I don’t know this, but I would bet money on it that the CAF either just barely breaks even or loses money on their F4 Phantom but are able to support the operations due to the other aircraft.

We figured the wings should be able to be removed, but we just don’t know where to even look.  It could very well have a single piece spar, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all. The B-29 is like that.
As for the NADEP, i might give Norfolk's a shot. My brother is actually there receiving training right now, so i will give him a call tomorrow and see if he can find some connections for us.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Need some help/ideas for an aircraft
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2011, 05:13:49 PM »
Oh ok. I figured it was inspections.

Military aircraft do not operate under civilian rules. Chances are there is a bunch of stuff missing out of that airframe when they "demilled it". Things with purely military aplications that DOD or the Navy did not want leaving their control. Just because the engines run does not mean the other flight systems work or are even present.
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