Author Topic: wat ever happended to pilots with honor  (Read 20671 times)

Offline Wiley

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #165 on: July 14, 2011, 08:45:06 PM »
I don't think it's the game bringing it out in people, I think it's the society we live in that nurtures it. More and more people spend their lives interacting with other through a computer instead of face to face. Whiles this gives us a broader reach and sampling of people, it also gives everyone anonymity. People do, say, and act however they want and nobody can correct them. Aholes abound! There are no consequences on the internet. More and more kids have a problem interacting with others face to face these days. They don't understand why their little "online personas" get them in trouble when dealing with real people.

Oh, I'm well versed in John Gabriel's Greater Internet Effwad Theorem...  Anonymity + Audience = Effwad^2.  But what you said before is something I hadn't considered before, about it wearing people down that would normally act classier than they do if they're surrounded by a constant stream of jackwagons.  I'm not saying it would happen to everyone that's exposed to it, but I can definitely see it wearing some people down.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline PuppetZ

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #166 on: July 14, 2011, 08:52:20 PM »
Absolutely - but who hasn't seen an otherwise decent person morph into King Turd once they can do so with impunity?

I don't think anybody hasn't. I live in a small town of about 40k ppls. And I can assure you there are king turds lurking everywhere

the broader phenomenon and the game are bunghole makers - but responsibility for this STILL must be awarded the a-hole in question. Otherwise, we only issue accelerators in the race to the bottom.  

I agree that the responsibility is on the aforementioned a-holes. Acting otherwise might require quite a bit of self control and reasonable thought. Both of which a fair share (and personally I think : the vast majority) of the world population are clearly ill-equipped to deal with, mainly through lack of education.Not because they are dumb.

One point I wish to disagree on though : I don't see more people acting selfish and dumb than before. The problem is we have no real empirical data to support these claims. All we have is the human perception of his environment, and this have been proven, countless times, to be wrong. This is all associated with the phenomenon of nostalgia and how the human long term memory works. In the psyche of a person, the long term memory will tend to retain mostly the good memory, in such a way we get to a point where we regrets those past times. All the bad memory of people being disrespectful and all the little problems of your life at the time fade to leave you with the feeling that "these were the good ol' times". I'll give you a very concrete example of this : I work at a car dealership (if you know of a better place to meet a-holes, tell me. I do not). Sometimes some old guy will come to me and talk about the cars they owned in their life. If the guys are old enough it often go back to the 60's and 70's. They tell me of how THESE were good, RELIABLE cars. Not like the junk they sell today. That's the perception they got. I often ask them how often they had to bring these cars in for tune-up, maintenance, bodywork, engine work, ect... they look at me with big eyes. The fact being that while they had great styling in those days, the cars nowadays are WAY more reliable than they've ever been. I've heard stories from one of our old tech that's been in the business for 35 years now. Bodywork to fix rust HOLES every 2 years on these oldies(I live in Quebec, very hard condition for cars). Muffler every years, complete tune up every 6 months. Now to start them in the winter, choke, 2 press of the pedals to spray some fuel in the carburetor and pray it'll start cause it's minus 20 Celsius outside. Great cars...yeah right...pieces of junk that you were lucky if all went well they were (and pu-lease(sic), don't get me started on volks) Yet all they remember is the fun they had on their road trips. It's in the human nature. All this to say. Don't be so quick to judge and tell us how the people now are such jerks. The bad phenomenons always seems at a peak for people living in those times. You also have to factor in that you now have access to a broad pool of genetically inferior group thanks to the net. which you probably didn't have 30 years ago (even if you did, back then you probably were communicating with well educated people who knew how the f... these old 'puter worked). And also factor in the fact you grew older over the years. Yes. The teens always looked kinda bizarre to their parent's generation(let's talk about the hippie and how they were perceived in the 60 by the people 40-50-60 years old...).

If you read all the way through, congratulations. I just want to finish with this : I, in no way, affirm being the sole holder of the truth. I think I presented a rather solid argumentation, that is well debatable and refutable, and not a bunch of conjecture put together. Now I ask you. What do you think?
LCDR. Frank 'PuppetZ' Perreault, Squadron intelligence officer

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Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #167 on: July 14, 2011, 08:55:06 PM »
Make it stop!  :bhead
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #168 on: July 14, 2011, 09:07:52 PM »
I don't think anybody hasn't. I live in a small town of about 40k ppls. And I can assure you there are king turds lurking everywhere

I agree that the responsibility is on the aforementioned a-holes. Acting otherwise might require quite a bit of self control and reasonable thought. Both of which a fair share (and personally I think : the vast majority) of the world population are clearly ill-equipped to deal with, mainly through lack of education.Not because they are dumb.

One point I wish to disagree on though : I don't see more people acting selfish and dumb than before.  

I did get through that puppet  -and I first have to commend you on an excellent example that IS suported by empirical data. At Ford with Product Development, we're well aware of the relative quality/maintainability/reliability of old versus new. Whether the phenom you indicate is responsible for this gilding of the past is a broader point about which I make no conclusion - but if we had data on the cohort that remembers such old junk as somehow better, we'd have a pretty solid case. In any case, I wouldn't disagree anyhow. My point is limited to the impact of moral hazard on the behavior of most. Put any cohort in two situations - the first in which they're rigorously monitored, the second in which they're presented with moral hazard - and undoubtedly, you'll have a few more transgressors in the second . I'd be very cautious about extrapolating that concept to indicate some broader societal decline trend.

I think from this idea, you could say (I know it's a tired idea) that there are 2 types of people (it's really an analog continuum, not a binary set):
1. people who will act like King Turd or Sir Galahad whether monitored or not (internal compass, good or bad)
2. slippery base-terts who shape-shift depending on their environment (no internal compass)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 09:09:24 PM by PJ_Godzilla »
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline crazyivan

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #169 on: July 14, 2011, 09:29:37 PM »
Well you'll get no thesis about cartoon chivalrous culture from me. For me phases of the game as follows. 1st yr. Noob- Crazy, Pobably HOing, anything I could get guns on,  including gvs. 2nd yr. dweeb Crazy, believing everyone should fly my way, and displeased when shot avoiding a HO. Current Enlightened dweeb Crazy. See's noob Crazy coming a mile away, and waits for dweeb Crazy, to pick  him honorably. :D Have fun kids.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 09:31:12 PM by crazyivan »
POTW
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Offline SPKmes

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #170 on: July 14, 2011, 10:12:47 PM »
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 10:16:49 PM by SPKmes »

Offline Guppy35

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #171 on: July 14, 2011, 10:13:13 PM »
Ha! You really think your opinion means anything to me? You are an arrogant appendage who really needs to learn some humility. You should also realize going around calling others idiots only makes you look like a tard.

So why respond?  Why not set the example by taking the higher road?
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline PuppetZ

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #172 on: July 14, 2011, 10:53:10 PM »
I did get through that puppet  -and I first have to commend you on an excellent example that IS suported by empirical data. At Ford with Product Development, we're well aware of the relative quality/maintainability/reliability of old versus new. Whether the phenom you indicate is responsible for this gilding of the past is a broader point about which I make no conclusion - but if we had data on the cohort that remembers such old junk as somehow better, we'd have a pretty solid case. In any case, I wouldn't disagree anyhow. My point is limited to the impact of moral hazard on the behavior of most. Put any cohort in two situations - the first in which they're rigorously monitored, the second in which they're presented with moral hazard - and undoubtedly, you'll have a few more transgressors in the second . I'd be very cautious about extrapolating that concept to indicate some broader societal decline trend.

I think from this idea, you could say (I know it's a tired idea) that there are 2 types of people (it's really an analog continuum, not a binary set):
1. people who will act like King Turd or Sir Galahad whether monitored or not (internal compass, good or bad)
2. slippery base-terts who shape-shift depending on their environment (no internal compass)

I get your point. It is true that the internet knows no laws. As such, we get a decent idea of what some will do when given free roam and without the fear of ever be faced with the consequences of what they do or say. I think you pretty much nailed the types of persona we encounter in our everyday life. It's very sad though to see perfectly decent person act like a fool because "everybody does it". I am better than that. If they are, is themselves to decide. As Ink (I think) said, how you approach the game is very revealing of how you approach your everyday life.

The one thing I find most laughable and disconcerting at the same time is people getting so angry about being killed in a game they feel the need to blast away at everyone. That's something I had not encountered ever before online, me being a solo gamer and not participating in BBs. That's exactly the same type of people that think with their emotions instead of their brains. The same type that got through life so far by crying at their mother so she buy them the last gi joe. The very same type that loads his 10000$ credit card even though he works at subway and wonder why they threaten to re-possess their dropped honda civic with a japanese engine and gets angry at them because of the problems they brought upon themselves. The very same type that makes everyone else responsible for his demise except himself. And, sadly, the same kind of person that think school is for looser. It shows...

I agree that the responsibility is on the aforementioned a-holes. Acting otherwise might require quite a bit of self control and reasonable thought. Both of which a fair share (and personally I think : the vast majority) of the world population are clearly ill-equipped to deal with.

Trolls are way more numerous than articulated people on earth. Maybe Sauron is behind it all  :noid

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and in the tardness bind them" :devil

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 10:56:24 PM by PuppetZ »
LCDR. Frank 'PuppetZ' Perreault, Squadron intelligence officer

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'Kids, you tried and failed miserably. The lesson is : never try'

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #173 on: July 15, 2011, 04:26:38 AM »
this is what happened
hmmmm does this breach a rule ????   hmmmm...I spose i'll find out soon enough

I think it would be a rule breach if Pastafarianism were a real religion and if you were mocking it. I'd not worry, since the only people dumb enough to think the former true appear to be located somewhere in the government of the Osterreich. I'm waiting for someone to file for a (non-civil union) marriage license with their cat. After all, why not - I mean, besides the embarassing claw marks?
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Iraqvet

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #174 on: July 15, 2011, 08:26:16 AM »
As I said before, I already proved you are lying as the HTC kill stats don't lie. There isn't a a kill of me flying a Brewster done by you found from the kill stats. Now you talk about Ch200 before it was a PM, now which is it?

I repeat, this kill you claim to have done can't be found from the kill stats. That basically proves that nothing you are claiming here happened and no wonder I don't remember such incident. Hard to remember something that hasn't happened.

In life in general, if you are gonna start accusing someone of something you better be darn sure you can back it up. Otherwise, you'll look like an insulting liar...well, which you are.

You are nothing but a liar.
And I will say it once again mouth as soon as I shot you down.....you crashed I got a pm from you like a big baby. 
***The Perk Tank Snuff***
HHC 1-502nd "Strike" Infantry 101st Airborne Division Air Assault!
The very essence of leadership is its purpose. The purpose of leadership is to accomplish a task. That is what leadership does and what it does is more important than what it is or how it works

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #175 on: July 15, 2011, 09:32:20 AM »
Caller: Hey Ditka, I saw you on the sidelines last week, crying like the baby you are
Ditka: I live at XXX YYY Lane! You mee t me there and we'll see who the gutless wonder is!

Host: Next Caller, you're on the air...

Caller 2: Hey Ditka, do you need osme Cruex? I saw you on the sidelines last week. I was tempted to hand you a wire brush and tell you to have yourself a field day!
Ditka: I'm ZZZ years old and I'll take you on any day you punk! Meet me here at the studio if you've got the guts!

Host: Next Caller, you're on the air...

Caller 3: Don't worry, Mike, you'll always be my baby.
Ditka: Mom, I told you...
Now, where's that lock?
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Westy

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #176 on: July 15, 2011, 10:35:07 AM »
Some of you need your heads examined or a good, prune enema.

You're truly "dented" in the head if you think online, intardnet
game "behavior" is any kind of a real-life reflection of someone's
character.

It'd be like claiming I'm a psycho behind the wheel of a real car
because I get a laugh from smashing Matchbox toy cars together.

Get real. Get help too.

Offline Wiley

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #177 on: July 15, 2011, 11:11:08 AM »
You're truly "dented" in the head if you think online, intardnet
game "behavior" is any kind of a real-life reflection of someone's
character.

It'd be like claiming I'm a psycho behind the wheel of a real car
because I get a laugh from smashing Matchbox toy cars together.

Get real. Get help too.

I believe the last time it came up, the conclusion was reached that if you HO, you're probably a drug addled thief who cannot be trusted in any aspect of business and are destined to ultimately spend life behind bars.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions about RL behavior from the game, but I do find it interesting how some peoples' in-game or online behavior changes over time.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #178 on: July 15, 2011, 11:20:18 AM »
I'm honestly torn on this matter. On the one hand, yes, it sounds a bit grandiose to expect a bunch of character projection as a feature of the game, yet, at the same time, I know when I play a USTA (recorded to a database) match, I feel I always get a good sense of the opponent's character.  

I'd say that if the opponent is a serious blowhole, it's probably going to show here or there. For the vast bulk of players, though, probably not... The most notable will be the exceptions. I mean, consider the case where the opponents gets on 200 for a taunt or complaint. I'd never do such a thing and can only look at those who do as somehow miswired. What doe sit say about them? It's hard to say in any given case - after all, they might be 13 years old (different standard).
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Wiley

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Re: wat ever happended to pilots with honor
« Reply #179 on: July 15, 2011, 12:01:56 PM »
It depends what you're talking about too though.  How you communicate with and treat other people in game and on the forums I think is often closely related to RL behavior.  Whiner in game, probably whiner IRL.  Internet Tough Guy in game, more often than not, dolt IRL.

As far as how people play the game, I don't think it's as much of a correlation.  Everybody in the MAs is playing according to their own set of (or lack of) rules.  Just because someone isn't playing by your self imposed limitations doesn't mean they're a meth head thief, it just means they're playing by a different rule set in game than you are.

To me, there's a world of difference between a guy that is third man in when 2 friendlies are having trouble with a singleton and kills him and a guy that is third man in when 2 friendlies are having trouble with a singleton and kills him, and then proceeds to get on 200 and thump his chest about his mad skills.

On the other side of that, there's also a world of difference between a guy that gets himself into a position where 3 enemies have access to him and gets killed, and the guy who gets killed in that scenario and then proceeds to go on a half hour long screed on 200 about his attackers' questionable parentage, lack of skill, etc etc.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11