30k b17s still are'nt fun

[FiLtH]

Good fight with a 38 who wanted to fight tho <S>

[branch37]

145 got swamped with B-17s around 30K as well,  our G-6s just couldnt get near them.  We had a great dogfight that went right down to the deck with the escorting P-38s and 47s though.  It was one of the funnest fights ive had in FSO in a long time. 

[Vulcan]

time for 10k alt caps for buffs in the last frame 

But seriously, what's the point? 30k buff's are untouchable. If we wanted that in FSO we could just get the CM's to destroy targets on the field without the buffs.

[oakranger]

time for 10k alt caps for buffs in the last frame 

But seriously, what's the point? 30k buff's are untouchable. If we wanted that in FSO we could just get the CM's to destroy targets on the field without the buffs.

BoB the Axis had no problem getting the +30k buff.

[Big Rat]

BoB the Axis had no problem getting the +30k buff.

oakranger,

I believe in the BoB the buffs were limited to 24k and the fighters were limited to 30k.

 
BigRat 

[mtn-paradoc]

our buffs were at 22k and we had 205's diving through at warp 3.7!

[perdue3]

I dont mind high alt bombers, but a cap would be nice, doesnt have to be low. Somewhere round 25 would be cool.

[HighTone]

The LCA had our buffs at 23K. Don't need the CAP as the T+60 rule is going to limit how high you can get sometimes anyway.



<S> to the KN.


I dove in on what I though was three 190's that weren't paying attention. Turns out to be perdweeb and the KN.

I dive, and as that 190 rolled out of phase with my 38, my mind was screaming....damit..this wont turn out well. From there I saw it coming and still couldn't avoid it.

  Great times.

[Big Rat]

The LCA had our buffs at 23K. Don't need the CAP as the T+60 rule is going to limit how high you can get sometimes anyway.

For the close bases like 145, the buffs had plenty of time to get to 30k and they did.  I'd be happy with a 25k alt limit on buffs.

 
BigRat

[Viper61]

No the H+60 doesn't limit the altitude a bomber can climb to.

A planner can send in a "Squad sized" Main effort to meet the H+60 FSO rule to a target in any ordnance carring AC.  Then task a small portion of heavy bombers to come in at 30K at any point past H+60 and conduct a second strike to the same target.  Its a good technique that is nearly always successful as the fighters are rearming or low and the bombers don't need escorts.

Alt Caps aren't a bad thing and they were needed for the IJN scenario's we ran where B-29's were in use against the IJN AC.  We all know the alt limitations of the IJN AC and the alt capabilities of the B-29.

In this scenario I don't think the Alt Cap is needed as the 190's can operate at 30K and the 109's at 25K.  The AXIS have very few 190's and the ALLIES aren't using many bombers.  Leave the rule alone and each side must plan accordingly given the resource limitations.  Alt Caps rules should only be used "if" the side set ups place one AC type out of reach of the other.  Just because its "hard" to get up to high alt and fight there isn't a good argument to place an alt cap in a scenario.

Lastly there are point values to consider in any alt cap restriction.  "Forcing" high point value bomber into a fight against low point value fighter places the side with the bombers into a disadvantaged position which isn't fair.

[Vulcan]

190A5's wallow @ 30k.

We had a large formation of B17s hit our base @ T+55 at 30k, with escorts at 30k. C205's and G6's struggle at that alt. Engaging b17 boxes at 30k with them would be suicide. The gun packages are limit, and require multiple passes. Plus there was escort up there.

Maybe if we had K4's, or D9's, and 262's, and 152's.

So yeah, it wasn't much fun. Not to mention the perfect weather conditions that allowed bombing from the alt (no cloud, no wind).

My suggestion to the axis commander would be forget defending for frame 3, just circle the allied fields waiting for vulch oppotunities.

[Big Rat]

A 30k B17 at speed is pretty much immune to a G6 (definitly can't take gondies that high) and I doubt the A5's are in a much better predicament for any sort of intercept.  You might get one head on pass, and then they are off to the races. 

 
BigRat   

[FiLtH]

No the H+60 doesn't limit the altitude a bomber can climb to.

A planner can send in a "Squad sized" Main effort to meet the H+60 FSO rule to a target in any ordnance carring AC.  Then task a small portion of heavy bombers to come in at 30K at any point past H+60 and conduct a second strike to the same target.  Its a good technique that is nearly always successful as the fighters are rearming or low and the bombers don't need escorts.

Alt Caps aren't a bad thing and they were needed for the IJN scenario's we ran where B-29's were in use against the IJN AC.  We all know the alt limitations of the IJN AC and the alt capabilities of the B-29.

In this scenario I don't think the Alt Cap is needed as the 190's can operate at 30K and the 109's at 25K.  The AXIS have very few 190's and the ALLIES aren't using many bombers.  Leave the rule alone and each side must plan accordingly given the resource limitations.  Alt Caps rules should only be used "if" the side set ups place one AC type out of reach of the other.  Just because its "hard" to get up to high alt and fight there isn't a good argument to place an alt cap in a scenario.

Lastly there are point values to consider in any alt cap restriction.  "Forcing" high point value bomber into a fight against low point value fighter places the side with the bombers into a disadvantaged position which isn't fair.

    I thought any squad had to hit their target by T+60. Not just that THE target had to be hit by someone by T+60. Thats extremely cheezy if thats the case.

[perdue3]

<S> to the KN.


I dove in on what I though was three 190's that weren't paying attention. Turns out to be perdweeb and the KN.

I dive, and as that 190 rolled out of phase with my 38, my mind was screaming....damit..this wont turn out well. From there I saw it coming and still couldn't avoid it.

  Great times.

Happened to alot of 38's last night Was fun.

[WxMan]

    I thought any squad had to hit their target by T+60. Not just that THE target had to be hit by someone by T+60. Thats extremely cheezy if thats the case.

Not every FSO has the credible force rule, it only appears from time to time. The T+60 rule applies to the mission, not individual squadrons. Sometimes multiple squads make up a mission and even if the credible force rule is in effect,  a mission may also include a delayed strike if a medium sized squad applies ordnance to the target before T+60.