HO or no HO?

[Wiley]

I don;t think that is the issue at all.  I don;t like them and I will make fun of any one that takes them.  Do I take them?  Sure, if you catch me taking off or if you dove in to join a 4 vs 1, if you hoed me several times and failed, but even that does not happen that often.  It is not my first choice or even last choice.  It is the I am pissed off choice  or the I thought you were the guy that vulched me earlier choice   But, I am not about to fly for 10 minutes to find someone to face shoot with only to end up in the tower or limping back.  It is just stupid.

Now, what you do is up to you (you in general not you personally).  The problems start when a HOer gets called out.  For some reason, even though they will explain to you how valid and historical the shot is, they get really messed up if you tell them they did it.  Try in on 200 and see   

As I said, never in the history of human kind has anyone been so upset, as HOer being told he HOed 

This specific example is a good one though, to illustrate what drives me absolutely bonkers when people start 'calling people out on a HO'.

What it looks like to me is, the two of them merged, pulled hard, the guy on the inside pulled the trigger and got the kill.  Maybe it was the first merge, maybe the fifth.  Doesn't really matter much.

What if DMGOD hadn't turned as effectively as he did on this pass, and instead gave Midway a canopy shot from Midway having performed the exact same maneuver?  Wouldn't everybody be sitting here talking about how legitimate and swell the kill was?  Not an exciting kill, but legitimate.

Why does it suddenly become lame because DMGOD was really, really close to getting his guns on him?

There's a saying about 'close' 'horseshoes' and 'hand grenades' that applies there.

As far as I'm concerned, the only legitimate gripe on HOing is if you're just coming in from 1k or 3k out with your pipper on the enemy and trying to shoot him as you go by.  Whining about getting shot from the front in a turnfight and not taking the shot just because the other guy's nose is pointed vaguely in your direction is ridiculous and equally as lame as the 1k out joust on merge.

Wiley.

[Midway]

I guess it all comes down to one question.  What makes a pilot good (simulated or otherwise)?

• Super high K/D?
• Hundreds of kills per tour?
• Low fighter rank?
• High kills per hour?
• High kills per sortie?
• High hit percentage?
• All/any of the above in a 25 ENY ride?
• Low Attack rank?
• Never HO's (despite the fact that there are 100 different definitions of a HO)
• Well respected as a good dog fighter in the AH community?

Midway and others, play the game like YOU want to play it, ignore what others think (unless you really care what others think), and have fun.  At the end of the day, none of us are making a dime off this game, there is no celebrity outside AH and you won't be on the 11 o'clock news if you do HO someone...  

  All of the above.

but the eny 25 thingy is optional.  

[Debrody]

Midway, the eny25 thingy wont work in the spit8... i said it last year. Disabling the easy-mode button helps you improve lightening fast.

Remember, you were the best flying newb ive ever seen (true you have much more flight time than me). I lost the hope in ya, but "learn" from Bruv, dont brownen your nose and once youll go far and will be able to reach all those above.

[Devil 505]

Only in air combat is it honorable to shoot a man in the back.

[Rob52240]

Who the crap cares?

It's every pilot's individual responsibility to stay out from in front of your opponent's guns as far as I'm concerned.

[Yenny]

Not a HO, when 2 good pilots fighting, the marginal of opertunity for a shot can be very slim. A lot of fight would comes down to an almost HO maneuever, but reality one plane have gun on the other. Then again there are also instances where the other pilot break it off to avoid the HO and end up givin the shot to the other.

[Midway]

...when 2 good pilots fighting...

       

[Shane]

I guess it all comes down to one question.  What makes a pilot good (simulated or otherwise)?

Dummies Guide to AH fighter stats

• K/D? - pilot's style

• kills per hour? - pilot's aggressiveness

• kills per sortie? - pilot's effectiveness

• hit percentage? - ymmv

• ride(s)? - *can* give additional insight when the above are factored in.

• Well respected as a good dog fighter in the AH community? - again, ymmv

 
[/list]

[Guppy35]

Got into a good fight with Grizz tonight and we ended up in one of those situations described here.  I did not have guns on. He did.   He didn't take the shot.  I commented in reference to this thread that he hadn't taken the shot.  His comment was 'it looked too much like a HO shot", also mentioning it might have looked more so on my end.

Sadly that fight got interrupted although he was gaining the advantage, but the point is the same.  If you are in a good fight, why ruin it, by taking that shot?

In the end, it's up to you.  No one really dies.  But it's something to think about. What is your approach when you see another plane.   If the kill is the most important thing, then take that shot.  If the fight is the most important thing, then don't take that shot. 

[RTHolmes]

• kills per hour? - pilot's aggressiveness
• kills per sortie? - pilot's effectiveness

these 2 also depend to a large extent on when you play (more red guys during primetime) and what you fly (eg. you spend less of your flight time rearming a jug vs a yak, or refuelling a jug vs a LA5).

[grizz441]

That being said, if I'm in a furball with multiple red guys swirling around, I'd take that shot.  1 v 1, I wouldn't.

Kind of a myopic viewpoint in respect to the MA.  Let me paint a picture:

Say you get a shot opportunity, it's not a HO, but it's really close and you certainly would not take it in the DA.  You know as well as I do shot opportunities usually are spread out, if you pass this one up, it might be another twenty seconds for you to get the next.  Say you have 2 red cons 4k away bearing in.  If you take the shot, kill the bad guy, you now have time to retrieve yourself into a good fighting position for the next cons who are eta 10 seconds in.  If you pass the shot up, you will soon be in a 3v1.  Your next shot opportunity on bogey #1 might be spoiled by simply having to get defensive with the other two.  At this point in a low 38G, the fight is lost.  And for what?

Would you "open up" what you consider a legit shot?

I always try to kill bad guys at any chance I get, as quickly as I can, because that's what it takes to be able to have a chance at surviving the endless streamline of bad guys coming for ya.  The planes are free so they'll just keep coming

There are plenty of times where I know that if I miss this shot I'm dead (from the other planes).  I cannot imagine handcuffing myself by worrying about which shots are okay and which are cheap in the eyes of Headonigus, the God of Aces High HO.

[katanaso]

Kind of a myopic viewpoint in respect to the MA.  Let me paint a picture:

Say you get a shot opportunity, it's not a HO, but it's really close and you certainly would not take it in the DA.  You know as well as I do shot opportunities usually are spread out, if you pass this one up, it might be another twenty seconds for you to get the next.  Say you have 2 red cons 4k away bearing in.  If you take the shot, kill the bad guy, you now have time to retrieve yourself into a good fighting position for the next cons who are eta 10 seconds in.  If you pass the shot up, you will soon be in a 3v1.  Your next shot opportunity on bogey #1 might be spoiled by simply having to get defensive with the other two.  At this point in a low 38G, the fight is lost.  And for what?

<snip>

Grizz,

The scenario you just described isn't really an isolated 1 v 1 though, if cons are 4k out and closing in on the fight.  That just happens to be a break from multiples fighters engaging each other.  However, the original post showed the only other con at 9.1k away, so that's the true 1 v 1 fight that can happen in the MA.

You're right about the point you're making for that scenario, but the two scenarios should be viewed differently different.

[STXAce8]

Only in air combat is it honorable to shoot a man in the back.

[STXAce8]

Got into a good fight with Grizz tonight and we ended up in one of those situations described here.  I did not have guns on. He did.   He didn't take the shot.  I commented in reference to this thread that he hadn't taken the shot.  His comment was 'it looked too much like a HO shot", also mentioning it might have looked more so on my end.

Sadly that fight got interrupted although he was gaining the advantage, but the point is the same.  If you are in a good fight, why ruin it, by taking that shot?

In the end, it's up to you.  No one really dies.  But it's something to think about. What is your approach when you see another plane.   If the kill is the most important thing, then take that shot.  If the fight is the most important thing, then don't take that shot. 

I don't like fighting Grizz, he alwayse kills me. 

[Wmaker]

Kind of a myopic viewpoint in respect to the MA.  Let me paint a picture:

Say you get a shot opportunity, it's not a HO, but it's really close and you certainly would not take it in the DA.  You know as well as I do shot opportunities usually are spread out, if you pass this one up, it might be another twenty seconds for you to get the next.  Say you have 2 red cons 4k away bearing in.  If you take the shot, kill the bad guy, you now have time to retrieve yourself into a good fighting position for the next cons who are eta 10 seconds in.  If you pass the shot up, you will soon be in a 3v1.  Your next shot opportunity on bogey #1 might be spoiled by simply having to get defensive with the other two.  At this point in a low 38G, the fight is lost.  And for what?

Would you "open up" what you consider a legit shot?

I always try to kill bad guys at any chance I get, as quickly as I can, because that's what it takes to be able to have a chance at surviving the endless streamline of bad guys coming for ya.  The planes are free so they'll just keep coming

There are plenty of times where I know that if I miss this shot I'm dead (from the other planes).  I cannot imagine handcuffing myself by worrying about which shots are okay and which are cheap in the eyes of Headonigus, the God of Aces High HO.

Amen. This is exactly how I've approached this issue for years. From word to word.