Author Topic: A Strat Proposal or Two  (Read 799 times)

Offline Vudak

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4819
A Strat Proposal or Two
« on: July 20, 2011, 03:28:56 PM »
Currently, strategic victory in Aces High is determined exclusively by the percentage of bases owned.  Although this is a tried and true concept dating back to the days of Air Warrior, it also has its limitations, and tends to funnel game play in predictable ways, thus limiting opportunities for a wider range of experiences within the MA.

Under the current setup, there is very little reason to attack anything other than a frontline base.  One rarely sees deep penetration missions featuring bombers at altitude with escorts, and the primary reason is that there is no point (other than roleplay).  Indeed, whereas half the reason of paying for an airforce is to be able to strike behind enemy lines, in Aces High, such a thing is seen as "wasteful" or "useless."  A game about WW2 air battles seems to require a special event to see a massed, escorted bomber raid.  I place blame on the game's emphasis on airfields as the primary objective.  

I propose that the airfields be realigned as secondary objectives in that suppressing or taking them will help a country complete their new primary objectives: the destruction of enemy infrastructure, industry, and logistics systems.

Whereas now one country must possess a certain percentage of airfields to "win," under my system, a country must destroy a certain percentage of targets (initially) deep within enemy territory.  Capturing airfields will still be useful, as they will reduce flight times to said targets, while suppressing airfields will have the effect of hogtying defenders.  Further, airfields could be one type of target too.  They would just have a smaller mathematical effect on the outcome (the exact math would depend on total targets and airfields naturally, but something along the lines of 1/20th of an industrial targets value, which in turn might be 1/20th of the total victory threshold).

To win, a certain "victory threshold" must be reached, and this is based on the percentage of targets destroyed.  This would propel deeper-ranged targets to a level of prominence, and encourage the sort of tactics necessary to successfully reach and attack them (higher level approach, escorts, screens, teamwork, tactics, and strategy).  

An attack on an industrial, infrastructure, or logistic target will have two purposes.  The first is to contribute towards the total threshold needed to secure victory (each target would be worth a percentage of the total destruction needed).  The second would be to make attacking successive targets easier.  Here are two first-draft examples:

Ammunition Plant
A successful attack on an ammunition plant would cause flak batteries to fire less high.  At game's start, a nation's flak would fire in 4 zones: 0-7.5k, 7.5-15k, 15-22.5k, and 22.5-30k.  At game's start, each nation has four ammunition plants.  When each is destroyed, a layer of flak is taken away (so the first destroyed ammo plant would make flying over 22.5k safe from flak, the second would clear the zone of 15k+).

Divisional H.Q.'s
An attack on a division H.Q. (troops) would decrease the amount of troops needed to capture a base.  At game's start, each base would require 4 C-47 loads to capture, and each nation would have 4 Divisional H.Q. buildings.  For each H.Q. destroyed, one less C-47 would be required.

Please note that these are just rough examples.  The specifics can change however one sees fit.  The point is to give there two purposes to attacking a deeper target: inching closer to the victory threshold, and making successive attacks easier.

Now, suppose a target is destroyed.  Can it be rebuilt?  Yes, via a simple A to B to C logistics system.

A--Origin: Cities and factories send out supplies to marshaling yards.  If the city or factory has previously been damaged by raids, it sends out supplies less quickly.

B--Marshalling Yards: decides where to send supply trains to rebuild damaged infrastructure (this could even be player-controlled, as with CV's).  Will load trains and send them on to their destination.  If the marshalling yards are damaged, trains will be dispatched less quickly.

C--Destination: The ammunition factory, divisional H.Q., city, factory, etc. that has been damaged/destroyed and is in need of supply.

In the meanwhile, these trains are destructible and can be targeted by player aircraft.

Ordinance and fuel restrictions as they currently exist in game (I do NOT advocate "punishing" players more so than already happens) could be tied in to this system as well.  I think ENY should remain numbers based.

I believe that such a strategic system would give Aces High much more depth while remaining simple enough to learn quickly.  It would add to the game, without taking away anything from it.  No one would be forced to play a certain way, either.  Furballers could remain content in the MA fighting each other between airfields as always, while strategy gurus could get together and plan truly decisive raids.  Historical types would get to relive the pages of all the books they've read about WW2 air combat, while quick action seekers would still be able to take off and quickly find a fight at a nearby airfield.

I think that shifting the primary objectives away from the front line would make this game much more diverse and fun.

Well, that's it in a nutshell.  Tear it to shreds :)

Edited because for some reason " is replaced with a '?' when transferring from Word...
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 03:55:18 PM by Vudak »
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline 2bighorn

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2829
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2011, 03:43:05 PM »
Excellent idea.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if HTC (currently) has the resources to implement such changes, they already have hard time with simple things like updating planes, fixing bugs and tweaking current system. Hell, even things like fixing BBS search takes a while.

Maybe if recent distribution deal brings more subscribers they can seriously dig into strat system.

I wouldn't want to see another "Combat Tour" like project. 


Offline Vudak

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4819
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 03:44:47 PM »
Excellent idea.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if HTC (currently) has the resources to implement such changes, they already have hard time with simple things like updating planes, fixing bugs and tweaking current system. Hell, even things like fixing BBS search takes a while.

Maybe if recent distribution deal brings more subscribers they can seriously dig into strat system.

I wouldn't want to see another "Combat Tour" like project. 

Well, posting in the wishlist is like buying a lotto ticket.  You do it for the week's worth of dreaming, not for your chances!  :D
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline AKP

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 03:52:42 PM »
I dig it...  but why not make it even more simple to calculate.  Make "victory" based on "victory points".  Assign a certain number of victory points to each type of target captured... example:

500 victory points required to "win": (yes... I just pulled this number out of my butt, so dont do any math on the number of bases and strats needed to meet it  :neener: )

Task Force: 5 victory points
Port: 5 victory points
S Airfield: 10 victory points
M Airfield: 15 victory points
L Airfield: 20 victory points

Factory: 15 victory points
City: 50 victory points
HQ: 100 victory points

So how do you capture a factory, city, or HQ?  Simple...  A certain % of it must be destroyed (just as the towns have to be now)... and add map rooms to them.  Dont change the math on troops needed to capture anything...  and a captured factory would have the same effect as it being destroyed does now.

This will make the larger bases more valuable... right now, they are just harder to flatten.  If they are WORTH more... you will begin to see fights over them, and strategic decisions made.  Such as "We are being hit at small AF 213, and at large AF 224"  The smart thing to do would be to sacrifice the small AF to save the large one if there werent enough forces to save both.

Do away with the radar being taken down if the HQ is captured... since that is currently the only reason to hit it aside from score padding.  Being the most valuable target on the map makes it worth hitting using this method... and worth defending.

In addition...  making the strats able to be captured... instead of destroyed... give the other side (or even the third side) the ability to fight to take it back.

Great concept Vudak...  but I think tweaking it this way would work better... be easier to implement, and make for a wide variety of tactics to "win the war".  
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 03:56:08 PM by AKP »

***G3-MF***

Offline iron650

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 662
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 03:53:58 PM »
+1

How about a destructible train traveling between strats?

Offline Vudak

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4819
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 04:04:03 PM »
AKP, as long as the more "expensive" targets are behind enemy lines, then I'm for it :aok

I don't think you should have to capture a factory though...  That would be asking a lot of the goonie drivers.  It's hard enough to get them a sector or two without interception.  Imagine 3-4! I understand that you want to encourage a fight over them, but there could be a fight to defend the skies surrounding the railway lines that would bring in the supplies that could bring the factories back (If "A" destroys a factory and gets the 15 victory points, but then neglects it and allows it to be repaired, they lose the 15 points, so there would be a legitimate reason for train busting missions).
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline AKP

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 04:12:08 PM »
Vudak... point taken on the goon.  Its also hard enough just getting one on a normal mission.  No one here wants to be "the easiest girl at the dance". 

So what you are saying is that if using the point system as I stated you would need to:

1) take enough bases of the right sizes first

then

2) hit the strats and level them in order to force the opponent into submission... so that the strats dont repair themselves before you can get the remaining bases you need to win.

A 1 hour down time would need to be put into place on the strats too, and to follow up my idea about larger bases being worth more than smaller ones... each map would need a different set of victory points needed to win...  making sure that you cant get enough points by just hitting the small ones. 

***G3-MF***

Offline LLogann

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4947
      • Candidz.com
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 04:18:00 PM »
Ask and you shall receive.     :aok      DONE!

+1

How about a destructible train traveling between strats?
See Rule #4
Now I only pay because of my friends.

Offline Vudak

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4819
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 04:22:00 PM »
Something along those lines, sure.  1 Hour might be a bit tight considering the distances involved to target, etc., but that could always be adjusted (even by map if need be).  If there is a true railroad system, you can bump up the downtime much longer (because it will be reduced by each--vulnerable--train).  If there is no such system, then the downtime would probably need to be shorter to balance.

The basic aim (which I think both our plans share) is to make attacks on something other than the most convenient target worthwhile.  Right now, there is very little incentive to go after anything but the easiest target, because all targets give the same number of "points."
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline AKP

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 04:27:51 PM »
The basic aim (which I think both our plans share) is to make attacks on something other than the most convenient target worthwhile.  Right now, there is very little incentive to go after anything but the easiest target, because all targets give the same number of "points."

Exactamundo!  :aok

Its like we are using WWI strategy (fighting only along the front lines) with WW2 equipment.

***G3-MF***

Offline 4deck

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1520
      • (+) Precision
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 11:53:43 AM »
Im all for some strat over haul. I would like to see real convoys too, along with Depots too. Maybe even a real sea port.
Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7309
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2011, 12:25:40 PM »
I would just like the strategic asset destruction to have some sort of effect as well as being able to affect it's resupply time.

As of now, it seems they always resupply no matter how many trains you kill.........or how many times you kill the same train.

Offline slayem

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
      • SWAMPDRAGONS  BASE
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 02:37:15 PM »
 I'm all for another, forward, layer of logistic targets. Ammo and fuel dumps, replacement depots, rail yards, bridges, and even large cargo ship convoys like on current FSO map would be fun to hit. More things to do is more fun.
SWAMPDRAGONS C.O.
"General, we're surrounded!"
"Then split the men and attack both ways."
Gen.N.B. Forrest

Offline Skulls22

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 693
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 10:17:34 PM »
   Vudak,

There are not enough koodos in the world to describe how much I love this plan! I really hope AH uses somthing like this for the strats if they get reformed.  :aok
(In game Sparty)
R.I.P. SASFRAS, may you return some day soon
<S>

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17423
Re: A Strat Proposal or Two
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 10:56:15 PM »
sounds great but how do you propose all this attack will be coordinated?  and do you know why few people dont engage in long range missions? because it takes hours, and few people have the time to log in fly for two hours and get killed by somebody that upped ten minutes before.

there's a reason why hq raids are a waste of time, they can be ressuplied in five minutes.

I'm all for trying new things, but this new idea will require a country wide coordination which is  almost impossible.

semp
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 12:44:42 AM by guncrasher »
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.