Looking for a 109 skinner....

[Guppy35]

I don't care either way to be honest with you

My thought, is that Gabler, in the position he was in, was in a position to have his plane stripped more easily then a lower ranking pilot who would be flying what was given to him.  I know it was done on all sides at times by individual pilots.  Bud Anderson's comments about his ground crew stripping the paint off his P51D in one night, after he casually mentioned it to them as winter approached.  He teared up talking about it knowing how hard they worked to come through for him. 

Bill Olmsted, an RCAF Spitfire ace writes about it in his book.  He and his ground crew stripped his Spitfire Vc of paint, along with removing armor etc to get more speed.

The fact that the tail swastika clearly has been sanded away and the upper wings are missing the insignia seems to hint at some sort of stripping of the paint.

Krusty, the article you posted, references the book I copied the images and profile from.  I think the article agrees with what I just posted in that it's not a shiny metal bird, but stripped down as best they could get it.  His beef seems to be with the model builders who give it an overall shiny metal finish, when it's clearly not polished natural metal.

[Krusty]

Well I agree as to the sanding down of certain markings. But then they clearly took the time to repaint the national markings and tail bands and ID markings on the wingtips and rudder.

I'm in agreement with the falkeins blog on the point that I don't think it would be a bare metal color. Here's why: If you want to strip down to bare metal, it's easy enough to power wash or use turpentine and get it done really fast. There would be no need to sand it down at all. There would be no remnants of the swastika. I think the sanding was part of the finish, to smooth it out rather than simply removing paint. Since we know they also polished the surfaces for speed I think this is the next natural step (fill the gaps and sand the surfaces). I also wonder if it was a rebellious move against their leadership to sand away the swastika, because they clearly painted the others back on the fuselage.

As you can see on the production line:



The metals looks a bit different from the photos of the Bf109G in question. I think it's going to be either a light blue sanded down or perhaps even RLM02 primer. It's still unclear. It might be very hard to pull off but I have an idea that might work. BMF showing through the RLM02. The problem is you don't want the RLM to look transparent as much as sanded away. Always a hard effect to pull off.

If I can get photoshop running (it's picky on my new OS) I'll try something out for it.

[beau32]

 I also wonder if it was a rebellious move against their leadership to sand away the swastika, because they clearly painted the others back on the fuselage.

Thats something that I havnet thought of before. It does seem odd that they do paint the marking back on the aircraft, and leave the swastika in a sanded down and barely visible.

It also appears there is no marking on top of the wings. If so, why would this be. They have already taken the time to put the markings back on the sides of the aircraft, along with the aircraft number and tail band.

Also, I found on a website (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g632ir_2.htm) that on here they talk about the gun troughs and access panels being a darker color than the rest of the aircraft. This could be due to them being a different metal (iron as stated on the website I just posted). If this wasnt the case, why would they possibly paint them a darker color than the rest of the aircraft.

Sorry for the many questions.

[Guppy35]

I'd be a bit surprised if it was a rebellious move.  The more logical thought would be that the pictures were taken during the process of stripping down and repainting of the national insignia and they hadn't had the time to finish up the job.

[Krusty]

the commentary I've read suggests they repainted the white markings afterwards (for ID), and I've done some sanding before. You can't stop around tail codes and tail stripes with a crisp line. It's clearly reapplied when whatever-was-done was complete.

I know a couple of other instances where the swastika was removed. A bit of defiance against uncaring and demanding masters that often paid no heed to the pilots flying and dying in daily combat. There was the Bf109E-4 whose commander married a Jewish wife, forced to wear the red stripe of shame. They painted over the swastikas in retaliation. There's also I think another handful of 109s of later marks with a painted-over area where the swastika would be.

Just a theory, though. It seems intentional, that they removed almost all the paint, painted the swastika back on, then sanded it off again? You see no traces of the camo colors, or of any other leftover paints. They took it down to the primer. The swastika would be the first thing to be sanded off. I think it was put back on with the fuselage markings then the order was given to sand it back off. Oh well, just a theory.

EDIT: typo fix

[Krusty]

Also, I found on a website (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g632ir_2.htm) that on here they talk about the gun troughs and access panels being a darker color than the rest of the aircraft. This could be due to them being a different metal (iron as stated on the website I just posted).

Iron is just plain wrong. Iron is super heavy and bulky and not easy to work with. To top it off I know for a fact the troughs were stamped aluminum as they were part of the removable cowling. At most they'd be low-grade steel to withstand hot gasses, but I don't think that was the case. The access panels as well were aluminum. I'm not sure why the different color other than maybe they removed those parts to sand them down and didn't put the same amount of time and effort in, meaning more of the color was still on them? (wild guess, there)

[beau32]

After thinking more about it, I came to the same conclusion that Iron would be way to heavy of a metal for those area's. The troughs and panels could be like you said Krusty that they just didnt put the effort into them to make them look the same. Could be some type of primer on it, but why just put it on those places and not the rest of the plane.

[Devil 505]

Could the area near the gun muzzles just be discolored from heat and smoke?

[beau32]

Could the area near the gun muzzles just be discolored from heat and smoke?

Doubtful as the panel lines are so clean and clearly distinguishable.

[Devil 505]

Heres a few 109s I'd like to see skinned for this game.

First off is Gunther Rall's Bf 109G-2 of 8/Jg52. My favorite 109 scheme.










Next is a Bf 109E-3 flown by Werner Moelders of Jg53

[Devil 505]

Next up are two 109s flown by Joseph Priller.

Bf 109E-3 of 1/Jg26






Lastly is a Bf 109E-1 of 1/Jg51




Come on you 109 gurus. Let's skin these beauties. 

[VonMessa]

Heres a few 109s I'd like to see skinned for this game.

First off is Gunther Rall's Bf 109G-2 of 8/Jg52. My favorite 109 scheme.
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

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Next is a Bf 109E-3 flown by Werner Moelders of Jg53

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Here is a JG51 bird that was approved about a year ago but g-6 slots were full...      

[Devil 505]

Thats really cool Von Messa. How hard was to get the eyes to look right?

[STXAce8]

Those grey emils look sweet.

[VonMessa]

Those grey emils look sweet.

Shame they are E-3's...