Author Topic: Tanking  (Read 4693 times)

Offline Wiley

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Tanking
« on: August 03, 2011, 01:18:35 PM »
Hi guys.  I was playing last night, and for some reason decided to up an M4 to defend one of our bases.  Ordinarily to me a tank is the noisy metal box I sit in waiting to die, but last night I managed to find a slightly concealed hidey hole and kill a couple or three of them before someone came up behind me.

I'm not saying I'm interested in becoming the next desert fox, but with the search down I'm curious if there's some kind of resource that talks about the best way to kill different tanks, and more importantly the best defensive strategies with the different tanks?  What I mean by defensive strategies is stuff like the best way to align the body of your tank to the expected incoming fire vector, and things of that nature?  Offhand it seems to me the best way to set up is basically at a 45 degree angle front towards enemy.  Is that correct or does it depend on what kind of tank I'm driving?

I'm pretty decent with trajectories so gunnery isn't much of an issue for me.  I'm mostly curious about how to 'set up', and also general tactics.  Is 'shoot a time or two, then relocate' kind of standard procedure?  Or is it a better idea to hide far away and depend on them not having enough time to find my range before they get me?

I realize a lot of it is probably 'style', but I'm just looking for a couple opinions on best practices, I haven't really thought about tanking too much and I think I might want to take a slightly closer look at it.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline PFactorDave

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 01:28:58 PM »

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Offline Wiley

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 03:07:10 PM »
Thanks, Dave.  That's helpful for offense.

How about defense?  I guess on some level you work backwards from 'how to kill a specific tank' and try not to give them that shot...

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline PFactorDave

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 03:39:25 PM »
Thanks, Dave.  That's helpful for offense.

How about defense?  I guess on some level you work backwards from 'how to kill a specific tank' and try not to give them that shot...


You need one of the dedicated tanker guys to chime in here.  I couldn't tank my way out of a wet paper bag, to be honest.  I just knew that that thread would be useful for you.

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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 03:51:19 PM »
M4(75): assume you'll die, alignment is irrelevant, you need to get behind the tanks to kill them

T-34/76: only aim at the panzers and M4(75)'s. Aim for the turret with both of these, use HVAP out to 1200yds.

Panzer IV: find somewhere you can shoot from a hull down possition. Makes you smaller and harder to spot. If under fire, move. Frontal turret armor is only 50mm.

T-34/85: park your tank at a slight angle from the enemy tanks

M4(76) same as T-34, turret is near indestructable at range.

Tiger I: place your tank at a slight angle to the enemy, hull down is good

Panther: find a hull down spot, you're lower nose is vulnerable from considerable distance.

Tiger II: front toward enemy
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Offline M0nkey_Man

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 03:59:26 PM »
M4(75): assume you'll die, alignment is irrelevant, you need to get behind the tanks to kill them

T-34/76: only aim at the panzers and M4(75)'s. Aim for the turret with both of these, use HVAP out to 1200yds.

Panzer IV: find somewhere you can shoot from a hull down possition. Makes you smaller and harder to spot. If under fire, move. Frontal turret armor is only 50mm.

T-34/85: park your tank at a slight angle from the enemy tanks

M4(76) same as T-34, turret is near indestructable at range.

Tiger I: place your tank at a slight angle to the enemy, hull down is good

Panther: find a hull down spot, you're lower nose is vulnerable from considerable distance.

Tiger II: front toward enemy
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Offline M0nkey_Man

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 04:00:34 PM »
double post
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 04:44:00 PM »
M4(75): assume you'll die, alignment is irrelevant, you need to get behind the tanks to kill them

T-34/76: only aim at the panzers and M4(75)'s. Aim for the turret with both of these, use HVAP out to 1200yds.

So this means outside 1200 yards, the gun is ineffective?

Panzer IV: find somewhere you can shoot from a hull down possition. Makes you smaller and harder to spot. If under fire, move. Frontal turret armor is only 50mm.

Pardon a basic question, 'hull down' means what, nose pointed down a slope?

Thanks for the info, this makes sense.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Blooz

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 05:04:12 PM »
Hull down = only turret is visable to the enemy



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Offline PuppetZ

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 05:56:49 PM »
So this means outside 1200 yards, the gun is ineffective?

What I think he mean is : past 1200Yds the High Velocity Armor Piercing(HVAP) round become ineffective because it lost too much energy. Use a High Explosive(HE) round at long range. They're not as effective at drilling holes in armor plates but their effectiveness is not tied to their velocity.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2011, 10:48:40 AM »
What I think he mean is : past 1200Yds the High Velocity Armor Piercing(HVAP) round become ineffective because it lost too much energy. Use a High Explosive(HE) round at long range. They're not as effective at drilling holes in armor plates but their effectiveness is not tied to their velocity.

 :huh

...so there are (very limited) situations where it's better to use HE on vehicles?  Interesting.

I spent more time in a GV last night than I probably have in the last 6 months.  It's not something I'm necessarily going to be in the mood for that often, but I did have more fun last night than I ever have in a GV before.  The fact I had a plan and had some semblance of understanding what was going on helped a lot. <g>

Thanks for the description of hull down, Blooz.  That was something I'd been doing anyways but I quite often get trapped up in the language for stuff I do in the air as well.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2011, 11:54:32 AM »
No no no, thats completely false  :furious. Puppetz, don't go trying to apply World of Tanks crap to Aces High.

What I  mean is that past 1200yds, 'standard' AP rounds (actually they are APCBC, or Armor Piercing Capped, Balistic Capped) are more effective than HVAP (HVAP stands for High Velocity Armor Piercing. They're the same as APCR or Armor Piercing Composite Rigid)

Standard AP rounds are essentially just a big bullet. Face hardening of the armor plate was found to cause the rounds to shatter on impact. This led to APC rounds to be introuduced. It was a normal AP round, but with a cap of softer metal on the nose of the round to dampen the impact, and prevent the round from shattering. However, the caps were't the most aerodynamic, so they added a hollow nose to the cap that brought the APC rounds to the balistic standards of normal AP rounds. These became known as APCBC rounds.

An APCR or HVAP round is different though. It takes a small, sub-caliber dart, and surounds it with a lighter alloy, often aluminum. This makes the round lighter, which allows higher velocities to be achieved without using a larger propellant charge. However, the casing doesn't fall away like with APDS (Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot), so the rounds have the same overall dimensions as AP or APCBC rounds. Because they have less mass compared to their dimensions, they lose their effectivness faster, as they slow down at a faster rate than AP or APCBC rounds.

Kinetic energy translates to armor penetration, and   KE = mass x velotciy squared / 2. Since velocity is squared, increasing velocity improves the preformance of a shell or bullet to a greater degree than increasing the mass of the projectile does. However, it also means that as velocity decreases, it also has a greater negative effect on the preformance of a shell.

All this means that, an HVAP shell will slow down faster than an AP round, and that lacking the extra mass compared to an APCBC shell, it won't penetrate as much armor as an AP shell, even when they are at the same velocity. As a result, HVAP shells will preform better than AP only out to a limited range (1200yds for the two HVAP shells we have in the game).
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 12:00:09 PM by Tank-Ace »
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Butcher

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 11:55:31 AM »
Hi guys.  I was playing last night, and for some reason decided to up an M4 to defend one of our bases.  Ordinarily to me a tank is the noisy metal box I sit in waiting to die, but last night I managed to find a slightly concealed hidey hole and kill a couple or three of them before someone came up behind me.

I'm not saying I'm interested in becoming the next desert fox, but with the search down I'm curious if there's some kind of resource that talks about the best way to kill different tanks, and more importantly the best defensive strategies with the different tanks?  What I mean by defensive strategies is stuff like the best way to align the body of your tank to the expected incoming fire vector, and things of that nature?  Offhand it seems to me the best way to set up is basically at a 45 degree angle front towards enemy.  Is that correct or does it depend on what kind of tank I'm driving?

I'm pretty decent with trajectories so gunnery isn't much of an issue for me.  I'm mostly curious about how to 'set up', and also general tactics.  Is 'shoot a time or two, then relocate' kind of standard procedure?  Or is it a better idea to hide far away and depend on them not having enough time to find my range before they get me?

I realize a lot of it is probably 'style', but I'm just looking for a couple opinions on best practices, I haven't really thought about tanking too much and I think I might want to take a slightly closer look at it.

Wiley.

If you have time, let me know and I can take you in the Training Arena and show you a few things, I am usually on in the morning and nights est
send me a PM when you are available and will make some time <S>
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 12:04:57 PM by Butcher »
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Offline PuppetZ

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2011, 12:24:09 PM »
Ok. Sorry, my bad. Seems I was right about the HVAP loosing too much E at least....

What are HE round for then? Light armored vehicle?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 12:26:03 PM by PuppetZ »
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Tanking
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 12:31:02 PM »
Is that a serious question, or are you just trolling  :huh?

HE is high explosives. While they CAN be used on light armored vehicles, HTC has decided that, for whatever reason, HE rounds will bounce off of the lightly armored vehicles instead of exploding and damaging them (as represented by a hitsprite)

Rule of thumb: its its got armor, use armor piercing.

High Explosive rounds are used for town buildings, AA and AT emplacments on bases, and field structures such as radar, ordnance bunkers, and fuel.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"