Tanking

[Tank-Ace]

the M8 would probably be a good way to test. 37mm won't one shot this thing no matter where you hit it, so it will let us test the M4's damage more precisely.

[Hap]

Hull down = only turret is visable to the enemy



(Image removed from quote.)

Blooz et al . . . to confirm that one's position is hull down, what's the best method.  I'll go into position 2 (firing position with reticle) and try to have the sight just clear a berm.  In position 1, there's a full clear view of the field.  Is that how it is done.?

[morfiend]

Blooz et al . . . to confirm that one's position is hull down, what's the best method.  I'll go into position 2 (firing position with reticle) and try to have the sight just clear a berm.  In position 1, there's a full clear view of the field.  Is that how it is done.?

 Hap I believe you have it right,in gunner position lower gun and it should drop to just below the berm,IIRC it's a 15 degree down traverse so when level it should just clear the berm.



   

[Butcher]

I'm always available for anyone who wants to learn about tanking, just find me in game, LWArena

[SmokinLoon]

I almost never take %100 of either type of ammo.  Only the Sith deal in the absolute.    Even when going to a tank fight I will always take the smallest amount of HE along.  Why? Because HE is BETTER than AP when it comes to enemy M3's, M8's, M18's, 251's, and even Wirbys and Ostys.  A near miss will cause cause enough damage to take out engines, blow tires, mangle turrets, etc. Once crippled then an AP round is loaded.  The M3 and M8 will blow up nicely when hit directly with an HE round. 

Oh, in case people were wondering, here are the following main tank guns listed in order of AP ability at 2000 yards in AH:

Tiger II @ 176mm
Firefly @ 129mm
Panther @ 118mm
Tiger I @ 111mm
Panzer IV H @ 98mm
M4A3 (W) 76mm @ 97mm
M18 @ 97mm
T34/86 @ 94mm and 79mm
Panzer IV F/2 @ 90mm
M4A3/75mm @ 70mm
T34/76 @ 63mm and 55mm
Panzer IV F/1 @ 38mm

The 1000 yard range tells a wee bit different story thanks to the T34's HVAP ammunition.  However, there is far more than just the AP ability of a tank to consider.  The optics make a huge difference.  Having the ability to get 5X or higher zoom is a huge blessing, and even more so when in a German tank with the high quality optics.  Turret traverse rate, pivot ability, reload rate, vehicle speed, and armor protection are all factors that need to be taken in to consideration when taking a tank. 

Someday I will get someone to host my "Tank Specifications" spreadsheet for anyone to download.  It has all the details for all the tanks in AH for quick reference.  It comes in handy quite often. 

[Tank-Ace]

Unless of course you have the armor and gun data memorized.

[Butcher]

I almost never take %100 of either type of ammo.  Only the Sith deal in the absolute.    Even when going to a tank fight I will always take the smallest amount of HE along.  Why? Because HE is BETTER than AP when it comes to enemy M3's, M8's, M18's, 251's, and even Wirbys and Ostys.  A near miss will cause cause enough damage to take out engines, blow tires, mangle turrets, etc. Once crippled then an AP round is loaded.  The M3 and M8 will blow up nicely when hit directly with an HE round. 

Oh, in case people were wondering, here are the following main tank guns listed in order of AP ability at 2000 yards in AH:

Tiger II @ 176mm
Firefly @ 129mm
Panther @ 118mm
Tiger I @ 111mm
Panzer IV H @ 98mm
M4A3 (W) 76mm @ 97mm
M18 @ 97mm
T34/86 @ 94mm and 79mm
Panzer IV F/2 @ 90mm
M4A3/75mm @ 70mm
T34/76 @ 63mm and 55mm
Panzer IV F/1 @ 38mm

The 1000 yard range tells a wee bit different story thanks to the T34's HVAP ammunition.  However, there is far more than just the AP ability of a tank to consider.  The optics make a huge difference.  Having the ability to get 5X or higher zoom is a huge blessing, and even more so when in a German tank with the high quality optics.  Turret traverse rate, pivot ability, reload rate, vehicle speed, and armor protection are all factors that need to be taken in to consideration when taking a tank. 

Someday I will get someone to host my "Tank Specifications" spreadsheet for anyone to download.  It has all the details for all the tanks in AH for quick reference.  It comes in handy quite often. 

If you can email me I can post it on 367thdynamitegang.com, have a nice download section for that kinda stuff.

But also, most fighting done in a GV is well below 2k, only some crack shots will attempt to continuously shoot beyond 2k mainly because you expend quite a bit of ammo. My normal fighting is done in a Panther at roughly 1.5k which just above the range of anything under 2 perks from killing me, anything over 2 perks will easily kill me.

[SmokinLoon]

If you can email me I can post it on 367thdynamitegang.com, have a nice download section for that kinda stuff.

But also, most fighting done in a GV is well below 2k, only some crack shots will attempt to continuously shoot beyond 2k mainly because you expend quite a bit of ammo. My normal fighting is done in a Panther at roughly 1.5k which just above the range of anything under 2 perks from killing me, anything over 2 perks will easily kill me.

I will proof read my tank data and email it to you.  I just updated the turn radius for each tank.

[Butcher]

I will proof read my tank data and email it to you.  I just updated the turn radius for each tank.

cool deal, my email is butcher@367thdynamitegang.com

I'm glad you took the time to do this, I was going to write an XML file with all the information needed (from top speed, armor thickness, gun penetration range etc) but lately works been overwhelming me to point I got rid of an idea to make it a 3D model for "visual" identification.

[SmokinLoon]

email sent. 

I just finished the "mils" chart for all the tanks in AH to use with the German Zeiss tank sights as well.  I will proof the ranges offline and can send that as well. 

It will be good to get that info out in to the hands of the players.  I think many players use the German sights as "ghost ring" sights and have no clue how to use them.  I'm also writing up a "how to" tutorial for the German sight, but I'm not good at using diagrams and pics.

[Butcher]

email sent.  

I just finished the "mils" chart for all the tanks in AH to use with the German Zeiss tank sights as well.  I will proof the ranges offline and can send that as well.  

It will be good to get that info out in to the hands of the players.  I think many players use the German sights as "ghost ring" sights and have no clue how to use them.  I'm also writing up a "how to" tutorial for the German sight, but I'm not good at using diagrams and pics.

Here's a direct link - http://www.367thdynamitegang.com/files/TANK%20Stats%202.ods
If you want I can import it and make it into an entire HTML page so its easier to read?

[Tank-Ace]

I'm decent at using diagrams. If you want, send me a copy of the write-up, and I'll add pictures as needed.

[SmokinLoon]

IMO, it is easy to see what the Firefly has been left behind.  The main culprit is the M4/76.  There are couple of very distinct reasons-

In no particular order:

The Firefly is the slowest tank/TD in the game at 20mph.  [M4/76 is 26mph]  

The Firefly offers nothing the M4/76 cant do inside typical AH tank combat ranges (less than 1600 yards).  

The Firefly has a perk price of 7, while the M4/76 has a cost of 2.

The Firefly is a bit slow on the reload at 8 seconds, that is 2 seconds slower than the Panther, 2.5 seconds slower than the M4/76, and 1 second slower than the Tiger.  Only the King Tiger (10 sec) and the T34/76 are slower.  

It offers no more armor protection (on paper) than the M4/76mm.

So in short, unless the range of the tank battle starts are 2000 yards and only gets further out, there is absolutely no reason to take the 7 point Firefly when the 2 point M4/76 will do everything better than the Firefly except for long range AP.  On the same token, why take a Firefly when for a token 8 more perks a faster firing/same powered Panther tank with 9 mph more speed, pivot capability, and vastly superior frontal armor be taken???  

I STRONGLY encourage HTC to take a second look at the Firefly, especially the reload rate and the speed.  The power of the 17 Pdr gun is not to be under-rated, but the reload rate for the Firefly is simply too slow.  I base that on knowing the mechanics and how the main guns works on comparable tank guns (M4/76 and Panther), ammunition storage accessibility on the same tanks, size of the tank rounds in question (Firefly and Panther shells were very near the same weight and length, the M4/76mm was very close as well), and testimony from modern day tankers.  HTC's reload rate for the Firefly, as with ALL reload rates of their tanks are purely arbitrary numbers.  Regarding the speed of the Firefly, there are multiple sources out there that show that the Firefly was indeed slower than the US M4's for some specific reasons, but none of them gave 20mph as the exact speed.  The ranges I've read are 22-23 mph.  

edit:  sorry for the hijack 

[Butcher]

IMO, it is easy to see what the Firefly has been left behind.  The main culprit is the M4/76.  There are couple of very distinct reasons-

In no particular order:

The Firefly is the slowest tank/TD in the game at 20mph.  [M4/76 is 26mph]  

The Firefly offers nothing the M4/76 cant do inside typical AH tank combat ranges (less than 1600 yards).  

The Firefly has a perk price of 7, while the M4/76 has a cost of 2.

The Firefly is a bit slow on the reload at 8 seconds, that is 2 seconds slower than the Panther, 2.5 seconds slower than the M4/76, and 1 second slower than the Tiger.  Only the King Tiger (10 sec) and the T34/76 are slower.  

It offers no more armor protection (on paper) than the M4/76mm.

So in short, unless the range of the tank battle starts are 2000 yards and only gets further out, there is absolutely no reason to take the 7 point Firefly when the 2 point M4/76 will do everything better than the Firefly except for long range AP.  On the same token, why take a Firefly when for a token 8 more perks a faster firing/same powered Panther tank with 9 mph more speed, pivot capability, and vastly superior frontal armor be taken???  

I STRONGLY encourage HTC to take a second look at the Firefly, especially the reload rate and the speed.  The power of the 17 Pdr gun is not to be under-rated, but the reload rate for the Firefly is simply too slow.  I base that on knowing the mechanics and how the main guns works on comparable tank guns (M4/76 and Panther), ammunition storage accessibility on the same tanks, size of the tank rounds in question (Firefly and Panther shells were very near the same weight and length, the M4/76mm was very close as well), and testimony from modern day tankers.  HTC's reload rate for the Firefly, as with ALL reload rates of their tanks are purely arbitrary numbers.  Regarding the speed of the Firefly, there are multiple sources out there that show that the Firefly was indeed slower than the US M4's for some specific reasons, but none of them gave 20mph as the exact speed.  The ranges I've read are 22-23 mph.  

edit:  sorry for the hijack 

HTC has same source I have, which I speculate it should be 21mph due to a governor on the tank to keep it from tearing the suspension apart, this is due to the British design - ideal it can run at 25mph for a short burst, however it was prone to destroying the engine/suspension in a long run, even one time.

The Firefly is the firefly, only thing I can say is 1mph change, and if it wasn't fixed then either they have different Data or its such a small margin of error it won't be changed for a while.

[Tank-Ace]

Loon, the firefly does a lot more damage for every shot than the M4 does (or so it seems).

With the Firefly, you have better optics (even if the sight is worse, IMO), the ability to one-shot most tanks, and a much improved ability to engage Tiger's and Panthers.