London Violence

[M0nkey_Man]

Nice.  I like the way you rule 14'd me.

Your pompous ace can suck my polish sausage.  Sure, you will get away with spewing it towards me and I won't be afforded the same.

I could care less about being on this board cause its a jerk fest for PC beaches.

[Jayhawk]

sigh...

[Babalonian]

it's a crying shame that they have to fear for their lives as they attempt to save others lives, and property.

 that said, there are easy...albeit painful.....but easy solutions to that problem. said solution would constitute political suicide for those that approved it though.

It lead to a lot of debate and talk about gun rights and control in our state, it's a quagmire for everyone that loves their 2nd amendment and for those that support the firefighters (and policemen) that just want to do their job without it even being more dangerous than it is.  In a nutshell, and hopefuly avoiding any forum posting violations - I strongly support the 2nd amendment, but it grinds my gears that more often than not the only achievable solution is to litteraly burden another 20-40 pounds of equipment on the shoulders of a fully-loaded fireman (and they're usually packed down with equipment and up to their limit as is).

<snipped again, sorry, see below>

Nothing against your take on it mate, but I simply can't get dragged into the debate with you for the reason I mentioned, not becasue I want to cop out, but because I have to if I wish to avoid going on another (and even longer) vacation this time.  This is Skuzzy's and HTC's house, and despite his high tolerance for other and many #14 violations to be found on these boards, he has made it clear that mine in particular often crosses too far over for even him, so until at least a few weeks have passed since my last vacation from the boards, I must exercise extreme restraint where I can and try to bite my tounge. 

See my post above, I own and love shooting my own guns, but my opinion on this formed many years ago, and very strongly, when I went to go visit a family friend working at station 66 as a teenager and got invited along for a call as I usually did when I visited him working at a station.  This wasn't my first call riding along, but it was the first time I ever had a second thought about hopping aboard for one as my friend passed me a spare flak jacket on the way to the back of the ladder truck cab.

Can't find any other pictures of the place surprisingly on the google, but here is a picture of the front of the rebuilt station 66 - it just screams "we're here to help you when you need us, come on in!"  :

[Jayhawk]

It lead to a lot of debate and talk about gun rights and control in our state, it's a quagmire for everyone that loves their 2nd amendment and for those that support the firefighters (and policemen) that just want to do their job without it even being more dangerous than it is.  In a nutshell, and hopefuly avoiding any forum posting violations - I strongly support the 2nd amendment, but it grinds my gears that more often than not the only achievable solution is to litteraly burden another 20-40 pounds of equipment on the shoulders of a fully-loaded fireman (and they're usually packed down with equipment and up to their limit as is).

Yes, because in places where guns are outlawed, like the UK, there is no gun violence.


wait... Isn't that how this whole thing started?

[RTHolmes]

great, hijacked by another boring gun control debate ... start a new thread maybe?

[Babalonian]

<snipped>

Again, a political debate on gun control is boiling to the top of this thread's current subject.  I am aware of the reported details of the incident that kicked this powder keg off in London, and my personal opinion on gun rights differs from that enforced by the English government, however it is foolish and an obvious lacking of knowledge/proof/history that more guns in this situation would make it a hell on earth, more for those whose job it is to try and control and contain the situation than those who should rightfuly be punished for their behaviors.  

I have said all I can, probabley too much already, so it is time for me to open the door and hit the silk as I bail outa this doomed thread.

[Babalonian]

great, hijacked by another boring gun control debate ... start a new thread maybe?

Yes, lets get back where we left off, please do clarify your opinion on the similarities between the London Riots of '11 with those of Woodstock '99 and South Central LA '92.

[RTHolmes]

latest:

in London massive police presence and the veiled threat of rubber bullets seems to have persuaded most of the kids to stay at home.

in Bristol police have pretty much stomped out any trouble within a short time (they had some practice a month or 2 back so are better prepared than most forces.)

elsewhere the police still dont seem to have a handle on this yet, especially in the midlands. I hope the birmingham police get their act together - the 3rd test against india starts on friday!

[Tac]

They need to enlist re-enactors and deploy them on the streets.



 

[RTHolmes]

one thing I'm surprised by is no use of horses. Ive been charged by police horses once, it was very scary.

[crazyivan]

See Rule #4

[RTHolmes]

Yes, lets get back where we left off, please do clarify your opinion on the similarities between the London Riots of '11 with those of Woodstock '99 and South Central LA '92.

not much to link them really. if I had to pick one of the 2, I'd say the riots here are closer to woodstock than LA, in the sense that its a bunch of spoilt kids who have had the kind of opportunities handed to them that people outside of the affluent west would crawl over cut glass to have, but still feel like they arent treated with the respect they deserve and are just taking the opportunity to destroy stuff just because they can get away with it.

[Dragunov]

I never said anything about their views on gun rights, and you've twisted my words around to make a rather political statement, enjoy your vacation.

You really think more guns would of helped in that situation?  And you call yourself a fireman?  Go walk into the South Central firehouse here that was rebuilt from the ashes of its predecesor in '92, and share your opinions wile surrounded by the fung-shway arrangement of crash baricades, 12-foot high 2-foot thick brick walls topped with razor wire, and a solid steel with bulletproof-glass rolling garage door.  I'm sure they'll also gladly invite you to ride along if they have a spare flak jacket to loan you, as mandated.  See, even after the riots, the local gangbangers there have a twisted sence of showing gratitude for saving their buddies life the night before by shooting at the trucks and ambulances as they respond to assist a wounded or dyeing rival the next.

I didn't say just any police officers or firefighters in general, just those who were ordered to go into that hell on earth here in LA County during '92 and got shot doing their job and trying to help people.

Tell me Mr. Firefighter, what is your view and those of all your Texas comrads on mandatory bullet-proof vests and flak jackets ontop of the rest of the equipment you use to fight fires?  If you're ever unfortunate enough to have to work somewhere that does, let me know what you think about the prospects of having to do your job in certain hi-risk areas now with an additional 20-40 pounds of bullet protection?

I do,

You do realize that criminals love gun control. They just use TWO hands.......

Enough said already, The more you arm law abiding citizens the less criminals have a chance.....

[Dragunov]

one thing I'm surprised by is no use of horses. Ive been charged by police horses once, it was very scary.

There is a clip of some Police on horses think bbc or something aired it....

[grizz441]

Yes it's a sad situation, and there are social factors that have lead to this, but that is NO excuse. It is pure criminality just because these 14 year old kids think they can get away with it. I'm eagerly waiting for the army to be called in, and see some of these little butterers shot.

Yep.  and to be honest, there are social reasons and excuses that can be made for every type of criminal, as to why they became the way they were.  The worst of the worst scum in this world have all likely had awful upbringings that made them become that way.  Past a certain point (age?) though, accountability takes over and it does not matter what your excuse is as to why you are screwed up, it's YOUR responsibility to live your life as a law abiding citizen with moral fortitude.  It does not matter how hard your life has been, it's not an excuse for your actions.  No Excuse.