London Violence

[PJ_Godzilla]

Skuzzy's autocratic in his judgments. I don't pretend to understand.  I just tread carefully. That someone else might feel singled out actually gives me more faith that he's evenly applying some rules there. 

[coombz]

£10 says that post will be hit with a rule #14 too ...

could be  

or it could be that the mod just hasn't got round to reading the rest of the waffle in this thread  

anyway I do understand the need for moderation, it just means that this particular forum isn't the ideal venue for this kind of discussion...I'll be off now  

[RTHolmes]

update:

the first convictions are being processed this morning. almost all are guilty pleas and are being referred to crown court for sentencing (as in theory they can apply heavier sentences than the magistrates courts).

the very first sentence given out this morning is worth looking at in some detail. a 19yr old student, pleaded guilty to burglary of 2x T-shirts from a shop, total value ~£70. his sentence - 1 day in prison and a fine. since he's already spent a day inside, hes been released.

I checked out the sentencing guidelines for Burglary in a building other than a dwelling, the starting point is a Community order, the range is Fine -> 26 weeks custody.

this here is a large part of the problem which caused these riots. the maximum sentence for the crime he committed and pleaded guilty to is 26 weeks in jail. despite everyone saying that the consequences for these rioters will be "severe", this guy has been given 1 day in jail.

where is the punishment?
where is the deterrent?
why wouldnt this guy just go out again this evening and do it again?

 

[PJ_Godzilla]

why wouldnt this guy just go out again this evening and do it again?

 

Amswer: he will. A day in jail in exchange for the light joy of smashing glass and looting? Sounds like a bargain... Yeeeeehaw. I saw not too long ago that some punks got off for vandalizing a power station there because in court they constructed an argument that they were combatting global warming.

I think the new name for Britain might be "Juggalo Vacationland" since it appears to be a good place to indulge thuggish desires. The States aren't much better but at least here you've got to worry about the homeowner/shopowner, many of whom get punished if they defend their property.

[CAP1]

this is mostly youths doing this, right?

 should i start in on how it's the parents? or should i leave that alone?

[coombz]

this is mostly youths doing this, right?

 should i start in on how it's the parents? or should i leave that alone?

a 31 year old teacher is one of those pleading guilty today ... but yeah, mostly young 'uns
   

[CAP1]

a 31 year old teacher is one of those pleading guilty today ... but yeah, mostly young 'uns
   

 a teacher was in on this crap???? a member of a community that kids look up to??? i hope they throw the book at him. literally.

[RTHolmes]

hes been referred to crown court for sentencing, cant remember the exact charge but iirc the max tarif for his crime together with the conspiracy/riot aspect that the crown court can apply is 10 years ...

[Shuffler]

update:

the first convictions are being processed this morning. almost all are guilty pleas and are being referred to crown court for sentencing (as in theory they can apply heavier sentences than the magistrates courts).

the very first sentence given out this morning is worth looking at in some detail. a 19yr old student, pleaded guilty to burglary of 2x T-shirts from a shop, total value ~£70. his sentence - 1 day in prison and a fine. since he's already spent a day inside, hes been released.

I checked out the sentencing guidelines for Burglary in a building other than a dwelling, the starting point is a Community order, the range is Fine -> 26 weeks custody.

this here is a large part of the problem which caused these riots. the maximum sentence for the crime he committed and pleaded guilty to is 26 weeks in jail. despite everyone saying that the consequences for these rioters will be "severe", this guy has been given 1 day in jail.

where is the punishment?
where is the deterrent?
why wouldnt this guy just go out again this evening and do it again?

 

So much for the folks who said they would be dealt with severely. lol sad sad sad

[CAP1]

hes been referred to crown court for sentencing, cant remember the exact charge but iirc the max tarif for his crime together with the conspiracy/riot aspect that the crown court can apply is 10 years ...

 i'm gonna sound bad for saying this....but the guy should get the maximum. there is no excuse for someone of that age, and position in life to act this way. none.
 perhaps if they toss the book at one or two like that, it may serve as a rude awakening to act ones age, rather than ones shoe size.

[dedalos]

Answer this honestly: If Mr. Duggan was white, would there be rioting?

Honest answer:  I don't know if they would in England.  I can tell you for sure the boy would have been white in Greece and white people would have been rioting.  What does that do to your theory?  There is no need to continue this conversation.  I think we both know where you stand.

[Rich52]

Heres one of the riots Ive been in the middle of. For the record this was shot at a tavern district where a bunch of rich white kids went to watch a championship basketball game. When the home team won all heck broke loose. I was at another tavern district where myself and my co-workers were fighting for our lives against another bunch of drunken rich white kids who thought beating the Police would be a perk to destroying property and acting a fool. In other areas of the city the streets were fired and there was much looting. All this over a stupid basketball championship, of which we had to endure 5 more of the things.

I knew some of the guys on Rush street. They said it was a miracle they made it out alive. But the point is you put a mob out there fueled by youth, drugs, booze, anominity, and "any" reason to riot and watch out. Race doesnt really matter. This is why I take summer vacations. http://youtu.be/G_pAC0gLCXc  http://youtu.be/s6XfTVCHoDw

[SmokinLoon]

if all these rioters want to vent some frustration, then lets put a rifle in their hands and drop them off in Afghanistan for a few months.  That will cool them off.

[RTHolmes]

I like that, although I wouldnt give them the rifle.

[Rich52]

if all these rioters want to vent some frustration, then lets put a rifle in their hands and drop them off in Afghanistan for a few months.  That will cool them off.

Sure, they'd fit right in with military law and discipline. Besides they dont have the guts or honor to stand with fellow soldiers and fight other soldiers. They'd run and start crying for their mommies.