Author Topic: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn  (Read 4245 times)

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 04:11:16 PM »
Chart weights everything equally and doesn't even try to put values to some characteristics.

Ok, because I feel that the average MA player will resort to fighting for angles instead of utilizing their planes advantage... I have created a chart that compares acceleration and turn radius.

The shorter the acceleration time and tighter turn radius, the easier the plane is to 'fly' for the avg ma player.

The data was taken from here http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php

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Offline Changeup

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 04:23:50 PM »
No Brewster....full flaps...most noobs don't know where the flaps button is until the end of year 1 much less how to use full flaps effectively on most aircraft.  Some aircraft only HAVE full flaps...others have notches that allow better performance...but you are getting there.  Chart needs to be labeled though...some icons are the same.
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2011, 04:32:23 PM »
No Brewster...

give me the data, I'll drop it in....
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 04:41:56 PM »
Where is ballistics on this?

What good is a 109K4 performance wise if the pilot can't aim the gun?
That's rather the thing with that plane, fortunately MOST folks who fly it can't hit squat
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Offline coombz

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 04:42:14 PM »
g14 is missing dtango  :old:
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Offline dtango

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2011, 05:28:26 PM »
2bighorn: i'll relook at the numbers.  Could have fat fingered something.

wmaker: :D.. as for prop eff, bah, who needs it ;).... and you're right, the chart is only quasi-serious :D.

grizz: meh, guns are overrated unless you've maneuvered to where you can use 'em ;).  My QPM chart obviously deals with the maneuvering part, not the shooting part.

fox: let me clean it up and I'll make the data available.

cobia / coombs: I'll add the A-20 & 109G-14 when I get a chance to...

karnak: yeah, the Mossie seemed a little out of place to me too.  It's what the numbers say, but it mostly has to do with how I'm combining P/W and S/W together.  (The P-38 behaves similarly too).  This chart, QPM-1 is basically S/W scaled by power along the x-axis.  The mossie apparently has power in spades.  What it doesn't tell you is a true P/W ratio or true excess power (Ps) which factors in the power-required bit of it.  I have a QPM-2 chart that's basis P/W * S/W * P that's interesting that I may post to show the difference.

Ardy: my QPM chart includes proxies for instantaneous turn radius and excess energy for sustained turning.  Generally the lower down and to the right an airplane is, the better the turn radius.  The more up and to the right, the better the excess energy for sustained maneuvers.

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Offline pipz

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2011, 05:52:11 PM »
hehheh thats great stuff!!!!  :D  :aok
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2011, 06:19:07 PM »
Ardy: my QPM chart includes proxies for instantaneous turn radius and excess energy for sustained turning.  Generally the lower down and to the right an airplane is, the better the turn radius.  The more up and to the right, the better the excess energy for sustained maneuvers.


dtango, your QPM chart would indicate that the tempest is the easiest to to fly, but I would argue that for most noobs the i-16 is much easier to fly and fight with, that being said, should your 'EZ arrows'  be revised to be an 'EZ' circle in the lower right bottom? (ie lots of excess power and great turning abilities).



« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 06:23:55 PM by Ardy123 »
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Offline ink

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2011, 06:34:35 PM »
the only thing is it takes more then just 2 qualities to quantify "easy" mode

so this does not cut it

need to add

max speed at different ALTS

max cornering speed 

slow speed maneuverability

medium speed maneuverability

max speed maneuverability

best flap speed

max speed

gun lethality-ballistics-amount of ammo-

visibility

durability

max roll rate at different ALTS

stability during Stall (is this even possible :headscratch:)

max speed controls lock up/get heavy at


did I miss anything?











 

Offline bj229r

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2011, 07:00:49 PM »
I think we can all agree the P40b sucks major arse
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2011, 08:53:25 PM »
I think we can all agree the P40b sucks major arse

 :lol

I do not think anyone will dispute this fact!

Offline Fox

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2011, 09:10:21 PM »
I looked up some of the planes I run across in the late war arena and made a 3D plot.  The three axis are max sea level speed (mph), acceleration from 150-200 (in seconds), and best turn radius using flaps (ft).  I got the data from DokGonzo's site.  There are all sorts of ways to analyze planes, but I figured I would just use something similar to what dtango used.  The attributes I used may not match up exactly with dtango's variables, but hopefully they are close enough.

The 3D plot can be broken into 8 quadrants.  Of the planes that I used, there were 4 that ended up being in the quadrant representing the best of acceleration, speed, and turn radius.  These planes were the 190F-4, Ki-84, La-7, and Spit 16.  Note that I did not use all planes because I didn't want to spend alot of time on this.

I didn't spend much time cleaning up the graphs, so they are a little hard to read.

http://www.mediafire.com/?xz23awi2455m403
http://www.mediafire.com/?vrgg7lxsp490irg
http://www.mediafire.com/?ekms08b7ycibcpt
http://www.mediafire.com/?ici19b20k960nks


Offline Fox

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2011, 09:11:47 PM »
Meant to have the graphs show up in my reply (never do this).  Not sure how to do that I guess.

Offline grizz441

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2011, 09:14:56 PM »
Meant to have the graphs show up in my reply (never do this).  Not sure how to do that I guess.

They have to be posted to photobucket as jpeg's or png's and then you link to them, select the link and click the image button in the reply.

Offline grizz441

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2011, 09:16:17 PM »
the only thing is it takes more then just 2 qualities to quantify "easy" mode

so this does not cut it

need to add

max speed at different ALTS

max cornering speed 

slow speed maneuverability

medium speed maneuverability

max speed maneuverability

best flap speed

max speed

gun lethality-ballistics-amount of ammo-

visibility

durability

max roll rate at different ALTS

stability during Stall (is this even possible :headscratch:)

max speed controls lock up/get heavy at


did I miss anything?


Low speed stability
Difficulty of Ballistics