Author Topic: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn  (Read 4246 times)

Offline grizz441

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2011, 09:16:57 AM »
Very cool stuff gents.  When I get home I am going to do a cusory check on ENY values to see where things stand.  Grizz, in the Army we use what they call "battlefield calculus".  Part of that is assigning relative values to things.  Out of curiosity, what is your "1.0"?  I believe there are two stats to the numbers.  To obtain "1.0":

1.  What is the most common gun package or "single burst" similar damage package?  = 1.0 (1 second burst of 6 x .50 similar to 1 second 2 x Hispano and 4 x .303 etc..)
2.  What is a common (arbitrary) H/P for the system? = 1.0  

Say most guys average a 6% on H/P, what number would you assign to the MG-131 vice the Mk-108...etc.  

Just some thoughts.  Very enjoyable thread, as much fun in an intellectual way (similar to the infamous Gaston thread).  

My ballistics 1.0 is the P51D.
I feel D9 is close to 1.0 but slightly more difficult, based also in part due to visibility which is another factor :/  I'd say D9 is like 0.97 or something.

Offline Changeup

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2011, 09:19:38 AM »
Hats off to all....I just got a call from Skuzzy...he and four other office personnel are takin the day off because the BBS is actually being used for something fun or productive...HiTech is in shock and is lying down for just a bit.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline grizz441

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2011, 09:23:35 AM »
Hats off to all....I just got a call from Skuzzy...he and four other office personnel are takin the day off because the BBS is actually being used for something fun or productive...HiTech is in shock and is lying down for just a bit.

Hopefully I can use this as credit towards a future BBS meltdown.

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2011, 09:50:49 AM »

Ardy: my QPM chart includes proxies for instantaneous turn radius and excess energy for sustained turning.  Generally the lower down and to the right an airplane is, the better the turn radius.  The more up and to the right, the better the excess energy for sustained maneuvers.



Tango,  I see your point. You make no distinction b/w the "energy" and "angles" fighters of E-M diagram analysis but rather rate how much overage each has in it's particular forte. This makes decent sense yet I agree with Ardy that energy fighting a s a rule is more demanding of the pilot since it requires at-times counterintuitive maneuvering (i.e., I agree the knee-jerk noob thing to do is to go for angle).

I like your topological approach. You can almost chop the isoperfs (coining here) into an upper and lower for angle/energy. Notably the Spit XVI splits the difference so well that you'd have a hard time binning it. 

Why those particular exponentials on the critical synthetic X, btw? The selection of those strikes as unnecessary since I see no correlative fit with X - i.e., why select a synthetic critical x abscissa cut from whole cloth? Those exponents seem to buy you nothing in terms of correlation...

Otherrwise, it's good to see an active mind applying some analytical tools.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2011, 09:58:45 AM »
Hopefully I can use this as credit towards a future BBS meltdown.
At the very least he won't "accidentally" change the ballistics on your K4 for month.  

BTW...I'm on American Airlines WiFi on my flight to KSC, MO....the in-flight magazine has guess-what on the cover????  Yep.  Lil Red and a cornhusker cheerleader....they apparently think there is something interesting going on in Nebraska...pffft...

Boomer Sooner

Assi- LSU is going to get the absolute piss kicked out of them by Oregon.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline waystin2

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2011, 10:04:11 AM »
I wonder how this will look on the Vinkwan-Waystin Graph? :D
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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2011, 10:06:56 AM »
I wonder how this will look on the Vinkwan-Waystin Graph? :D
Cheap and pitiful...
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline waystin2

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2011, 10:49:10 AM »
Cheap and pitiful...

I was thinking representative and enlightening... :D
CO for the Pigs On The Wing
& The nicest guy in Aces High!

Offline grizz441

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2011, 10:53:04 AM »
I will admit that the K4 is relatively easy to aim, once you spend countless months and hours in frustration training yourself to approach aiming in an entirely different light.

Spits are easy to aim without much thought at all into the process.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 10:57:37 AM by grizz441 »

Offline ink

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2011, 11:01:46 AM »
Tango,  I see your point. You make no distinction b/w the "energy" and "angles" fighters of E-M diagram analysis but rather rate how much overage each has in it's particular forte. This makes decent sense yet I agree with Ardy that energy fighting a s a rule is more demanding of the pilot since it requires at-times counterintuitive maneuvering (i.e., I agree the knee-jerk noob thing to do is to go for angle).

I like your topological approach. You can almost chop the isoperfs (coining here) into an upper and lower for angle/energy. Notably the Spit XVI splits the difference so well that you'd have a hard time binning it. 

Why those particular exponentials on the critical synthetic X, btw? The selection of those strikes as unnecessary since I see no correlative fit with X - i.e., why select a synthetic critical x abscissa cut from whole cloth? Those exponents seem to buy you nothing in terms of correlation...

Otherrwise, it's good to see an active mind applying some analytical tools.

all fighting is
"energy" fighting

I must have missed were Ardy said that noobs go for angles...that is something I completely disagree with, only someone who has been taught  about angles goes for angles, a noob puts his nose on a con and just fires away....no angles, no thought about ACM or even BFM.

Offline Tordon22

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2011, 11:03:08 AM »
It's way easier to just use shuffler's guide......


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Just plain stupid- hurri1, p40
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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2011, 11:04:54 AM »
I will admit that the K4 is relatively easy to aim, once you spend countless months and hours in frustration training yourself to approach aiming in an entirely different light.

Spits are easy to aim without much thought at all into the process.

Yes they are...much like how easy Cornhuskers are to beat...at just about anything.  In fact, they have found a new place to be the whipping boy...yes, I said boy.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2011, 11:06:00 AM »
all fighting is
"energy" fighting

I must have missed were Ardy said that noobs go for angles...that is something I completely disagree with, only someone who has been taught  about angles goes for angles, a noob puts his nose on a con and just fires away....no angles, no thought about ACM or even BFM.

I'd refer you to USAF tactical/Bad Boy E-M diagrams. In any given matchup and per the E-M, one opponent can be classified as the energy fighter, the other the angles fighter. See, for ref: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=96366.15

In this first example, the A-5 is clearly the energy fighter, the Spit V the angles fighter. Sometimes, however, distinguishing can be tricky, depending on how the E-M overlaps. Non e of this diminishes the value of the E-M though.

And here's the link to BadBoy's tutorial: http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_011a.html Note that I'm not disagreeing that "all fighting is energy fighting". That's true in a colloquial sense that energy managmeent is key. However, I was referrring to something much more specific than that - the E-M diagram or "envelope" as it's more commonly known. Have a look. I keep pushing Badboy for more comparison E-M charts but he only indulges me occasionally.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 11:11:46 AM by PJ_Godzilla »
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline grizz441

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2011, 11:06:47 AM »
Yes they are...much like how easy Cornhuskers are to beat...at just about anything.  In fact, they have found a new place to be the whipping boy...yes, I said boy.

Now you've done it.  :furious

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Re: Analyze This: QPM vs. grizz Venn
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2011, 11:15:33 AM »
Now you've done it.  :furious
I was my last Hispano round...I can't argue the Spit anymore.
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba