"You have landed successfully."

[Krusty]

What you describe is wholly unfair.

In real life a ground crew would be mad if you came back with nothing to show for it and pranged your kit. If you came back shot to hell they'd give you all the help you need, having just escaped death.

In this game, it is far more honorable (more points-worthy) to land a damaged plane than to "belly in" an undamaged one, or even to land normally with no damage.

Your rewards are disproportionate to their worth, IMO.

[BoilerDown]

EDIT: Responding to Grizz, before boilerdown posted:

How does that justify "wheels down" earning more points than, say me with 1/2 wingtip gone, 1 flap out, 1 elevator missing, no rudder, and coming in belly landing after getting 5 kills?

There's no way to enforce it because there's no way to tell if it was intentional or if it was for extrenuating circumstances. The game cannot read the hearts and minds of the players to determine if they're cutting corners or pulling off a miraculous save.

I would imagine in that case you land on the belly because you don't think you can pull it off on the wheels.  If you thought landing your heavily damaged aircraft on the wheels was worth the risk for the extra points, you would do it.  But if you think there's no way in hell you'll pull that off, you wouldn't.  Its that simple.  Also, there should be points for not getting shot up to the point that you didn't land properly.

I for one like Grizz's idea.  It makes sense.  Note however that I land wheels down already and I may be biased.

[Krusty]

Points for not getting shot? Fat chance. This is a game that encourages combat. That means going into harm's way to kill the bad guys. Giving points for doing nothing is a bad thing. Repeat: It's a BAD thing. It will lead to undesirable player behavior and simply train people to avoid combat and run away.

EDIT: Just so everyone knows: I land with gear any time I can. I'll limp home 100 miles with no kills just because I want to land it. I do this and still think Grizz's idea is terrible.

[BoilerDown]

Can you ever just make your point and not turn everything into debate team?

If you want more realism, here's my suggestion:

Concrete is for landing wheels down.  The brass doesn't like it when aircraft divot up their tarmac with belly landings.  Each airbase shall therefore have a designated patch of grass where belly landings must be performed for a "successful" landing.  Landing not on wheels on concrete shall be counted as a ditch, landing wheels down on the grass is still counted as a ditch.  If you want to successfully land belly up, you must land in the designated grassy area to the right or left of the runway.

[grizz441]

Your rewards are disproportionate to their worth, IMO.

How can the rewards be disproportionate relative to their worth if I said I did not know what the actual level of point differences based on damage should be?

[grizz441]

EDIT: Just so everyone knows: I land with gear any time I can. I'll limp home 100 miles with no kills just because I want to land it. I do this and still think Grizz's idea is terrible.

Lol how is my idea terrible?  It makes perfect sense to a logic wielding BBS warrior.  It makes as much sense as getting more points for landing on concrete with black and white boundaries as opposed to 1 inch to the left of the boundary.  It makes as much sense as getting rewarded for landing at all.  If you want to make the "this is about promoting combat" argument, then why don't we get rid of landing bonuses all together?  Once combat is over, just crash and get a new plane.  Sound stupid?  You're right it is stupid, so you might want to rethink your stance on that one.

The goal is to balance realism/immersion, combat, and subsequently quality game play.  There is nothing that detracts from combat about providing a little bit of incentive to players to land correctly, it would however, add to realism and immersion.

[grizz441]

Lets be clear here though, I am just arguing for the sake of arguing out of boredom and to keep my skills sharp.  I know that HTC isn't going to modify this, even though they should.  And this is coming from the most flagrant belly lander in the game, me. 

[A8TOOL]

I normally land wheels down when in a hurry.(Pilot wound and avoid vulch)

Sometimes I land that way just to hear these sounds.  Doubt you have them since I made them just for me

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?wxtpf5cahzt6ncf

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?k8fjtrfarqveswy

[Bino]

...
How would the community react if a feature was added which added a 5% (initial number) perk bonus to your normal earnings for the sortie?
...

+1

I'm usually in favor of anything on the "realistic" end of any given spectrum.  I'm not sure if perkies would be an effective incentive, but I guess that's pretty much the coin of the realm.

[SlapShot]

And this is coming from the most flagrant belly lander in the game, me. 

Hmmm ... that might be the only thing I can beat you at at this point.

[MK-84]

Just think of how much it would suck landing several kills but not getting full credit because your gear was shot off. 

[PJ_Godzilla]

It may not be the same as the real deal but its still good practice to get in the habbit of having good habbits for anyone with interest in real world flying.

It took a while but I ALMOST always land my 109's without bending the prop or scraping a tip. It's a satisfying thing.

[grizz441]

Just think of how much it would suck landing several kills but not getting full credit because your gear was shot off. 

Define full credit.  You'd still get your name in the lights, successful land, no death, and plenty of bonus points for landing, but instead of getting the full amount like a 1.5 multiplier that might range between 1.4 and 1.5, depending on how much damage you came back with.  So instead of getting 25 perks with a full healthy bird, you get 23 with some significant damage.  Would that be the end of the world to encourage players to actually use their gear? 

Oh the humanity, having an incentive to actually use your landing gear in a full realism aviation game!

[DeadStik]

deadstick... i wonder if your reference to the number of people "doing it" is based on real stats or just the company you're in?

My reference for this came from seeing people doing this on a regular basis because they could. I see it all the time.

in my opinion, it doesn't matter if you land on the belly or on wheels... as long you get down safe... and of cos land kills... and to be fair belly landing takes skills too...its really up to the player if he wants to fly it as a simulator or as a cartoon game...its his $14.95...

And I stressed these points, which is why I propose it would be a small incentive bonus. This is as opposed to a penalty for landing improperly.

Landing, gives me that small feeling of accomplishment of bringing one back and landing it. If that means I have to taxi to a hanger, I'm ok with that too.
...
Sure, why not give it a try.

I agree completely! Taxiing to hanger is the cherry on top! I feel people who want to be "gamey" should be allowed to be so. However, I also feel that good habits which are congruent with good aviation habits should be encouraged as well. I'm not talking about using "checklists" or anything along those lines. We're talking about the simple task of landing! For some, it can be challenging. So, let's add some incentive to encourage good stick/rudder usage in the air and all the way to the ground!  

"a successful landing is one you can walk away from, a great landing is one where you can use the plane again"

Great quote! Love it!

i doubt the op is the type that goes to rearm pad... he would prob rather up a new brand new plane..

Hey hey, that's not true. I use the rearm pad frequently and enjoy the full process. It's always fun in external view watching the gear compress under the added weight of the reload.

I land wheels up for the sake of having a quick landing and getting up again. I can land wheels down, I just choose to not.  gamey? maybe a little, but its preference.

something like this would be a good idea:i would land wheels down more if this were in effect. whats .25X what i already earned? not much... but enough to get me to land wheels down not up.  

I land wheels up for the quick landing and when the field is "hot" too. It's nice to hear that despite this, you'd be prone to land wheels down if incentive were added! Thanks!

"Any landing you can walk away from is a good one"

I don't think it matters.

While this is true and I did mention it, I fail to see how it should be the "norm" and if people can be encouraged otherwise we'd see fewer planes grinding to a halt with a fully functional gear in the wheel wells.

Maybe HTC could add another 1-2 point/perk levels to give credit to those who land "properly"?  I think it shows something when a person takes the time to land an aircraft in a proper manner.  It isnt like we have to taxi on up to the hanger and go through the shut down checklist.

It is just one of those gamey things the flash-bangers do.  

This is exactly my point. It's an incentive to land well, not a punishment for landing gear up. I can't stress this enough! Thanks for the post.

The snobbery and the worrying about what others are doing in this game and how they are doing it is getting ludicrous.

That's not really what it's about. If this were a snob issue, I'd be saying, "People who land gear up should be given a ditch." I'm not denying that landing gear up is a "successful" landing. I'm merely suggesting there be reward for flying the aircraft well. People might exclaim that people will just take off and land to gain perks, but of course the idea here is to add a % bonus to whatever you already have stored up. If you want to land gear up, please do so. I won't judge you or look down on you.

Let me present this: Let's say you and another both take off in identical aircraft with identical loads and you both log separate kills of equal value under your own merit. You grind the metal into the runway to a stop and he takes the time to land with the rubber. You both get rewarded equally. So the other guy then thinks, "Why did I even bother to land properly? Next time I'll just skid it in." Next thing you know, everybody is gear up which leads to an unrealistic premise that landing on the belly is the norm.

"Aces High takes the art and science of vintage WW1 and WW2 air combat and sets it in a high intensity online multiplayer environment."

This is copy-paste from the home page of the game. How is having a community of belly landing aviator wannabes preserving the beauty and the "art" of WW2 aviation? Food for thought.

[grizz441]

Let me present this: Let's say you and another both take off in identical aircraft with identical loads and you both log separate kills of equal value under our own merit. You grind the metal into the runway to a stop and he takes the time to land with the rubber. You both get rewarded equally. So the other guy then thinks, "Why did I even both to land properly? Next time I'll just skid it in." Next thing you know, everybody is gear up which leads to an unrealistic premise that landing on the belly is the norm.

"Aces High takes the art and science of vintage WW1 and WW2 air combat and sets it in a high intensity online multiplayer environment."

This is copy-paste from the home page of the game. How is having a community of belly landing aviator wannabes preserving the beauty and the "art" of WW2 aviation? Food for thought.

Nailed it!