F3 mode has got to go

[Karnak]

F3 view is tied to whether the aircraft is a "bomber" or a "fighter" and the method to remove F3 was simply to move it from being a "bomber" to being a "fighter".

As to your other question, no, of course Il-2s didn't concern me.  It is no match for any real fighter, or even fighter-bomber, in air-to-air.


My best ever air-to-air kill in an Il-2 was way back before it had the 37mm cannons.  I was out GV hunting, from the cockpit only as I never used F3, when suddenly I am being hammered by cannon impacts.  It goes on and on, but by Il-2 holds together, well, mostly together and then it is over.  A Spitfire Mk IX screams over me and goes into a shallow climb away.  I pull my battered Sturmovik up a bit and blow the Spitfire to pieces at about 600 yards.

Then I limped home.  The Spit really did wreck me.

[JUGgler]

I know what the official reason was. But look thru the smoke and mirrors.

Both of you know very well the truth of the IL2s "Il-2's air-to-air efficacy". Whatever small success it had in the ATA role was due to its use in fighting the horde intent on vulching and HO'ing around its own home runway. Did you quake with fear when you encountered a F3 IL2 while in your Spit or P-38? The IL2 never even had any "Il-2's air-to-air efficacy" in the first place. Unless you were flying against it like a bonehead. And even if you were up against the Queen of F3 gunning why are you in front of of the guns of such a slow, poorly climbing, sloppy rolling, lousy accelerating, bomber in the first place ?

And no doubt these "films" were provided by the same ones who wanted to get rid of the F3 in the first place. Even stranger was the fact that someone who flew it as much as I did had such problems shooting in F3, even tho I only tried it offlinie Personally I'd rather have an A-20s, or a Mossies, guns if shooting at a fighter then an IL2s 2 cannons.

But also moving it to the FH? Thats another thing.Taking away F3 only hurt the plane. Putting it in the FH also hurt the game itself.

This sounds very "past tense" is there a reason you choose not to fly it now?   



JUGgler

[kvuo75]

this is the 2nd thread rich52 talks about F3 in the IL2 where I cant tell if he's for it or against it.

I still can kill a tank with it. I don't know what his problem is.

[Ack-Ack]

this is the 2nd thread rich52 talks about F3 in the IL2 where I cant tell if he's for it or against it.

I still can kill a tank with it. I don't know what his problem is.

From what I gather, he was against it but I have a feeling his protests stems from he got used to the crutch that is F3 and can't live without it.

ack-ack

[Tilt]

I think my main whine re F3 is its use when bombing........... most commonly agin vehicles when low level bombing via dive or lobbing. Yeah the likes of the A20G and IL2 are/were enhanced ac v ac in dog fights. My experience in the Boston is that it is certainly easier making evasive manouvres in F3 than F1 and even if this does not make me the victor often my attacker is brought down by another simply because he could not get a quick kill on my Boston.

F3's global remote view gives far to great a level of feedback that a dodging pilot would actually enjoy IMO.

I have long held the view that there should be a separate "attack" clasification that introduces a raft of game play features for aircraft operating in a ground attack (Jabo) role this would include the elimination of F3 either totally or indeed when bombing or using any form of ordinance

[Rich52]

this is the 2nd thread rich52 talks about F3 in the IL2 where I cant tell if he's for it or against it.

I still can kill a tank with it. I don't know what his problem is.

I thought I made it plain in prior posts, and actually it was a lot more then two threads. Here, I'll make it simple.

1, I think the IL2 was picked out unfairly cause all the other attackers with one rear gunner were left with F3. This is my main complaint.

2, While the officially reason for it was cause F3 made it such a war winning air to air weapon the real reason is it was all the "Waaa-Waaa my tank got killed" whines. With the new GVs introduced the crying reached a crescendo.   I get a kick out of that tho, the one about IL2 air superiority. GHI was the only one who was racking up a lot of air kills, tho he was being killed a lot too. Still one guy isnt reason enough to pick out one airplane and single it out and even in its F3 heyday this was basically a 1.00 k/d attacker with most of it being GVs anyway. All taking F3 away did was take players out of its cockpit.

3, I can still kill tanks in it to. The problem is without F3 you cant dodge fighters or flak 1/2 as well, and it was hard enough before, which is probably why the plane is being flown about 2/3'rd less then it was.

4, Lastly moving a bomber into the FH changed the games defense mechanics. And not for the better. Oh and 5'th ? The inside views of the IL2 sucks.

 But if thats the way you all want it then take F3 away from anything with less then 4 engines. Just dont tell me its cause the IL2 was such a deadly F3 shooter.

Hey Ack-ack do you even play the game?

[Ack-Ack]

Hey Ack-ack do you even play the game?

Yes i do, have been for over a decade.


ack-ack

[Rich52]

Yes i do, have been for over a decade.


ack-ack

Then whats your game name?

[skorpion]

Then whats your game name?

AKAK....


kind of says it in his avatar....he didnt put those 2 "AK"'s in there for fun you know...

but dont get close to his imposter "AckAck"

hes just....akward...

[Melvin]

What a great thread to return to after my vacation.

So much win.

The answer has been given by so many. No gunfire allowed while F3 is in use.

Seems pretty simple to me. Of course I don't write code either.


  

[kvuo75]

I thought I made it plain in prior posts, and actually it was a lot more then two threads. Here, I'll make it simple.

1, I think the IL2 was picked out unfairly cause all the other attackers with one rear gunner were left with F3. This is my main complaint.

I don't know about it being "unfair", but I'd be all for taking F3 away from them too.

2, While the officially reason for it was cause F3 made it such a war winning air to air weapon the real reason is it was all the "Waaa-Waaa my tank got killed" whines. With the new GVs introduced the crying reached a crescendo.   I get a kick out of that tho, the one about IL2 air superiority. GHI was the only one who was racking up a lot of air kills, tho he was being killed a lot too. Still one guy isnt reason enough to pick out one airplane and single it out and even in its F3 heyday this was basically a 1.00 k/d attacker with most of it being GVs anyway. All taking F3 away did was take players out of its cockpit.

I dont remember gv'ers whining all that much about getting gunned by the IL2, more about being bombed.

also, you say F3 isn't about air to air, but your next point you mention how you use it to dodge fighters. 

3, I can still kill tanks in it to. The problem is without F3 you cant dodge fighters or flak 1/2 as well, and it was hard enough before, which is probably why the plane is being flown about 2/3'rd less then it was.

I try to stay away from fighters and flak.. It's meant to kill tanks which it still does quite well.

I'm guessing it's flown less because people liked using it as a fighter when the FH's were down.  Which is probalby why it's K/D was above 1.00 for the first time, last I checked.. it's getting vulched less. 

4, Lastly moving a bomber into the FH changed the games defense mechanics. And not for the better. Oh and 5'th ? The inside views of the IL2 sucks.

No real opinion on moving it to the FH, but I suspect if it moved back to BH and it still didn't have F3, it would be used just as much as before. good or not? I dont know.

The views are fine for spotting and killing tanks, IMO.
 

But if thats the way you all want it then take F3 away from anything with less then 4 engines. Just dont tell me its cause the IL2 was such a deadly F3 shooter.

I say take F3 away from everything. including 4 engine bombers.



So I think we agree after all! F3 was lame, HTC just needs to complete the change and get rid of it from all the other planes. 

[Ack-Ack]

Then whats your game name?

I use my old AW handle/CPID as skorpion pointed out.  Ack-Ack/AKAK, if you're that interested in looking up my stats.

ack-ack

[E25280]

If you want to get technical, the IL2 was designed as a ground attack plane and not as a bomber. 

If you want to get technical, attacking ground targets is exactly what a bomber does.  This is in contrast to a fighter, whose primary role is to attack other aircraft.  Since the IL-2 was most certainly not designed as an air-to-air fighter, its role was most definitely that of a bomber.

I'm guessing it's flown less because people liked using it as a fighter when the FH's were down. 

Exactly, which is why certain people B'd and moaned about it.  They didn't like getting face-shot when they were - erm - "capping" the field and would much rather have something more defenseless to shoot at.

F3 view or not, the IL2 is outclassed by every fighter in the game and severely outclassed by most.  Hard to believe so many found it such a challenge.

[wil3ur]

I think the real whining comes from the fact that idiots like to zoom an IL2 and think their speed will save them...  I'm 1K out, he can't touch me... I'll go vertical...  Then *POW*  37mm of love reach out and kiss him at 1.5k out and he's thinking, "ONLY WAY THIS HAPPENED WAS F3!!!!"  not, "I'm an idiot who was entirely predictable and did the one thing you should never do against an IL2 (get in front of it's guns)"... 

[titanic3]

Am I the only one who can't bomb in a plane without bombsights, without using F3? I just can't do it. I might get lucky, but I just can't bomb without F3.