To communicate, or not communicate?.....that is the question.....

[Fatty]

The fact that there's only 6 people in the entire company to hear us means that we may not get a response immediately upon a post.

That fact also means, however, that when there is a response it's from someone who is integral to the development of the product, and you can rest assured they're an informed and accurate source of information.  In fact it's safe to say that they all know not only what's going on, but to a certain extent can freely speak for each other.

Adding layers of communication to that setup exponentially adds barriers to true communication.  Each lower level of communication (free especially) is further and further cutoff from any real information, and ends up placing nothing more than "I hear you, I understand your concerns" posts, which may or may not ever even make it to Pyro and HT.  Outside of simple lack of information is the fact that someone who's working for free can have no less secure hold on their position, and would have to watch their words carefully lest they offend and need to be replaced.

I do not mind that Pyro if he's had enough on a subject can post saying "I'm tired of hearing this nonsense, that's enough."  A CM working under someone in charge of running the CMs working under Pyro simply cannot do this.

In short, anything between Pyro, HiTech, Ronni, Natedog, Yankee, and Superfly and the message boards is a hinderence to what has made them successful to this point.  Quick development based on a clear understanding of what the players want to see, balanced with their long term vision.

[bloom25]

In a way our community is very involved in making AH succeed.  Take a look at the help & training forum for example.  Nearly every question you see there is from someone asking for help with an aspect of the game or ACM in general.  There is a dedicated group of members in our community who do their best to try to answer those questions.  In addition you often hear from the trainers, who in many ways are exactly what Badger means by a CM.  AH trainers have been selected by HTC as those who have an above average knowledge of ACM and AH in general.  Our trainers provide invaluable service in exchange for free play.  (I should point out that a few refused to accept charity and STILL pay HTC to play. )

In the tech support and hardware forums other customers volunteer their time to help others solve problems they may be having.  This saves Pyro and HT from many hours of work a week.  (I personally have no qualms in giving some of my time so that others can share in the enjoyment of AH.  One day when I was bored I even attempted to write a tech support FAQ file containing answers to the most common problems I see in those forums.  The very next day HTC added it to their own FAQ file.   )

Special commendation must be given to Skuzzy.  (CEO of Applink Networks, the company which provides HTC with its internet bandwidth.)  Time and again he has taken time out of his busy day to solve connection problems people had been having.  In many cases this involves communicating with massive internet companies like Sprint and @home.  <S!!!> to you Skuzzy.

Nearly every squad in AH has a web page filled with page after page of AH information.  Lephturn, our chief instructor, has an excellent site containing AH general information, plane tips, and even some films.  Indian's site is also very nice, and contains a wealth of information about how to play AH.


What I'm getting at with all this is the fact that HTC does have many members of the community acting as voices for HTC.  At this time I fail to see any special need for players acting as intermediaries between the community and HTC.  There are already dozens of players who volunteer their time to help others enjoy AH.  Perhaps as HTC grows in the future they will need some people acting to relieve them of some work, but IMO now is not the time.  Also remember that many ideas that have been implemented in AH right now (see my list above for some examples) came directly from HTC reading and interacting directly with its community.  I personally feel that directly interacting with the developers of AH gives me a feeling that this company truely cares about the concerns and opinions of every individual.  I often see cases where HTC staff share jokes with us, giving a feeling of connection with the community.  One other example that truely sticks out in my mind occured about a month ago.  In the off-topic forum someone asked a question about RC planes.  The very next reply was from HT himself offering to share any information he had with this person.  Indeed HT ended up solving this person's problem.  (This person happened to be fairly new, so I don't even know if he realized that he was talking to the CEO of HTC.   )  I've chatted with HT personally a couple times during his online sessions.  I learned what he used to do before coding games.  Did you guys know that he used to be an Electrical Engineer?  Myself and others familar with this trade even engaged in a little bit of engineering humor, like what side of the complex plane does HT exist on. (The right side I hope.   )  All of this gives me a feeling of connection to this game and it's developers that I've never had with any other company.  Putting people between us and HTC can only degrade this feeling of close interaction with HTC.  Not only that, but I truely believe that HTC enjoys interacting with us.  (Pyro himself once said something to the effect that he really enjoyed what he was doing now.)  A side effect to all this is that HTC gets first-hand experience with the consumers wants and needs in the ever growing online sim market.  Any fool can tell you that knowing what the consumer wants is a major advantage in any business.  HTC "about us" link sums it all up well:

Quote: "HiTech Creations was founded with a simple philosophy by Dale "HiTech" Addink in 1999.  It's not to create a large corporation, a vast gaming network, or a line of online games.  It's just to create one game, but one that is better than any other like it.  Contrary to most companies, our goal is to keep the company small.  We know that with a singular focus and an experienced cohesive team that enjoys its work, the production, service, support, and overall level of satisfaction will be unmatched."

I'm sorry about the length of my post, but I felt that I needed to express my opinions.  Thank you for reading this.  (If you actually made it this far.   )  I hope that many of you will agree with me.



------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[leonid]

Badger,
I respect your candor and honesty, but I have to say that I do not share your doubts.  What happened in WB of ICI days was not only the work of Hitech/Pyro, but of quite a number of people, many who have gone on to other online projects.  In fact, I suspect that Hitech & Pyro only had about 20% of the decision-power then, and were only 5% of the staff for the 'old' WB company.  Any decisions or choices made then were the result of quite a few people, not only Doug or Dale.

What I see here in AH wrt staff participation is lightyears away from what happened back then, which to me says a lot, because now it's just Dale & Doug (and JoAnn and John and Nathan and Veronica - you guys are just as important to the whole development).  And this is no slight at the others who staffed WB of old, but merely a suggestion that too many generals only bog down and stifle the process.  I have never encountered this degree of contact with the staff of an online game.  And not only that, I have never seen such willingness on the part of a staff to interact with the players.

Finally, one thing I've come to believe about anything in life is that there is no black and white, only shades of grey.  What truly matters is the 'feel' of something, and if it feels good, then it's probably working, but if it feels wrong, you're probably right.  And what feels right today may not feel right tomorrow.  Rules and diagrams are only good enough to set you on your path, but once you've got your tools and you actually have an idea of the flow of things, then the only rules are that collection of knowledge in your brain, something which continually expands, modifies, deletes.  Thus, HTC may not be going by the rules of contemporary business theory, but seem to be doing something right, because I really like how this whole thing is coming about.  The honesty of their operation cannot help but show through.  But that's MHO  

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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA

"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."

[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 05-20-2000).]

[Sparks]

Badger - I read your post end to end as usual knowing it would be interesting and provoking but I'm definitely on the other side of the fence to you on this one.

 

Today's business paradigm is driven by customers who define product R&D in real time, not as in previous decades, where companies owned the absolute power and could develop a product or service with a "build-it and they will come" marketing approach....

I'm sorry but I've worked for several companies large and small including one large US corporate and this bs is straight from the training manual (as is all the "proactive" "customer focused" "total quality" baloney that gets thrown around ).
What this leads to time after time is constantly changing half baked solutions in the name of reaching "100% customer satisfaction" (that's in the manual too).

Add onto the top of that this scenario..

 

, it would be the implementation of either a closed community of users to facilitate R&D feedback on both ideas and even perhaps real product testing, such as pre-release betas.

and you now have a commitee of influencial others to which Hitech have to address and respond - meetings and more meetings. Before long there'll be the need for a "Mission Statement" to "focus everyone on the real priorities" of "achieving 100% customer..." oh god it goes on and on.

Then we go on to the Marketing issues...

 

..it does nothing more than take what could be a great R&D and Public Relations environment for their customers and potential investors, turning it into a nightmare of corporate communications negatism. I don't want to see this AH BBS potentially "death spiral" into the same problem by having HTC not recognize when it's time for some solid facilitative marketing communications...

Pardon ??? - "facilitative marketing communications" you mean telling the customer what's going on. Well I have never seen a company as close to it's customers as HiTech and as 'up front', to coin a phrase, with it's customers. Badger you conclude that Hitech should spend their time coding and not e-mailing and posting to their customers, and that this customer interaction should be delegated. I disagree, direct communication with customers is a key element of the most important part of a small business - doing the job right first time or fixing it quick if you don't.

<Rant over>

Badger - please don't take this personally but I spent 7 years of my life working for a major international corporation attending endless training courses, meetings and seminars pushing everything you talk of and how it would change the business. That coporation has changed - from one producing quality respected equipment with world class support to one producing constantly changing flawed products poorly supported. And why did that change happen? - because all the time we were in meetings to re-engineer the business model and re-structure the business to become "customer driven" for the future we weren't actually talking to customers and delivering what they had already paid for.

The most reassuring thing I have read in this thread is this:-
 

We are unorthodox in our development process. We don't have meetings, we don't email memos to each other across the office, we don't draft up schedules. We do everything that would make a traditional manager cringe. The reason why we do that is simple, it's efficient for us. It wouldn't be efficient in many places, but here it works because we all know our jobs and what we need to do.

I'll not need to make a million at this to succeed, nor do I expect to. And success or failure will probably prove nothing. Very few things are black and white. Successful people don't do everything right and people who fail don't do everything wrong.

What I think much of this boils down to is that we don't want to do everything ourselves, in fact we want to offload a bunch of stuff and will do that in time. But right now, we're just in the start-up stage so we're very conscience of what is necessary vs what is luxury vs what is waste.


------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

What all this business and marketing model guff misses is that the success of any enterprise rests on the quality of it's people and I don't think on that basis we have reason to fault HiTech.

Respectfully
Sparks

[Lance]

I vote no on Badger communicating

Seriously, as I pointed out originally, the review was at 6:45 AM.  The concerned posts started rolling in the various threads a little after noon.  Hitech first posted about peoples concerns at 5:30 PM in this thread.  So, the general timeline is, in fact, roughly four and a half hours between the time that anyone (Hitech, Pyro or a CM intermediary) could have noticed this as being a community-wide concern that needed to be addressed and when HTC started addressing those concerns.  I will say it again, if people cannot wait a few hours for HTC to respond to topics raised on these boards before working themselves into a frenzy, then they are taking this game and themselves far too seriously and need to get a life.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the problem I personally have with your idea of a CM information intermediary is that I enjoy getting the word straight from the horses mouth as opposed to lip service from a mule.  I've been involved in online communities for games that were set up much like you wish HTC would do.  Information trickled out to the players compared to here.  Company response started with a post from the intermediary stating that they were looking into the concerns.  Then, it had to pass through multiple levels before it got to someone who actually had the knowledge and authority to address players concerns.  At each stop, it was delayed somewhat or might even be lost in the shuffle.  A few days later, after the information had time to climb up and back down the beureaucratic tree, you might get a response.  Of course, if that response raised more questions, you had to wait another few days to get answers to them.  It was a mess far worse than anything we've seen  here.

Beyond not agreeing that a CM intermediary would enhance company-community communications, I also do not share your views that there has been a decrease in HTC's interaction with players, a slowdown in development due to their interacting with players, or a reluctance on HTC's part to adopt ideas brought forth by players (for whatever reason).  In short, I disagree with just about every word you wrote, Badger

The only thing I do agree you on is that time will tell all.  But I seriously doubt anyone will remember or care about a word posted here when that time comes, except for the self-agrandizing egocentrist who -- entralled by the sound of their own voice -- must say "I toldja so" to feed their voracious ego.

Gordo

[Lizard3]

...And if this thread doesn't make em sit tall and puff their chests out(as well they should!), nothing will. I guess I'll have to call the silversmith and recind the order for the Stanley Cup replica with their names on it. <Salute>


I haven't had this much fun....since my honeymoon  

------------------
Liz of TSM
  "Never take counsel of your fears."
T.J.(Stonewall) Jackson

[AKDejaVu]

 

In hindsight, your right, I probably should go with the consensus flow on here and be less vocal. I've just never been that good with pep rallies.

I don't believe my views are "consensus".  Maybe on this subject they are close... but they are my views and not something I have adopted from someone else.

I don't see your posts as being "rebelious" or "cutting edge".  I see them as silly.  Start developing games, make the buisness work, then tell people how you did it.  Unless this is done, every post similar to the one beginning this thread is pure speculation based on perception and come of sounding more arrogant than caring.  That in and of itself makes it common.

Done with my arrogant and common contribution to this thread.

AKDejaVu

[Dinger]

Hey, I like Badger's posts, even if I disagree with him on some of the details.
(In my opinion, there already is a de facto group of "the weightier sort" -- or better yet call it the pars sanior -- just look at whose posts here generate noise, and whose go by in relative silence.  In any case, no need to formalize the process).  And hell, I like historical analysis and philosophical conjecture as much as the next guy.
Speaking of which, previous experience should not be overlooked.  The main discussion board for WB is not controlled by iEN, and this to their great detriment (and we can all cite many cases); the most recent staff has tried to create their own UBB to compete with AGW, but with disastrous results.
Control over the community -- best exercised discretely, of course -- is a part of the marketing puzzle that should not be overlooked.  Let me put it this way.  We all seem to think that in some way the community should be part of the design effort (I prefer enlightened design despots, but I´m weird I guess), and happy.  Viewing it from the business perspective, what is most important in this respect is to make the community feel that it plays a role in the design of "their game".  Look at iEN: they have a formalized process for community feeback, and a track record of releasing versions with changes based on what the majority of the users were screaming for.  Yet the users feel disenfranchised, and I believe it's hurting their bottom line.
  It´s also critical to exploit to the fullest the resources of the community.
But it should also be said that a game company that permits the extraludic nexus of the community to escape control does so at its peril.  Regardless of what a company does, the players will meet and discuss, and they will find out about competitors, but with a company-run operation, the community is unquestionably one dedicated to the company´s product, and not some vaguer and contested notion or series of notions.  Heck, if you look at AGW, you know what I´m talking about: the fights over the legitimacy of discussing competing products, long tirades on whether the use of "pirate servers" was illegal or merely immoral, tirades which, while certainly pointless and philosophical like this thread, also served to draw the clients´ attention to ways to subvert the business model of the company, criticisms, some justified, others not, of the company's editorial policy on the other board, previous employees advertising their new company's products (IIRC, HT and Pyro steered clear of that one). Hell,their postiest poster hardly ever plays WB, but has a signature mentioning his association as an AH trainer.