Question of legal nature

[mbailey]

If he wrecked it, he's liable for the damages to the vehicle.  Get that sorted out in court first.  As far as the loan goes, you may want to look up the law on verbal contracts in your state.

This.............I was a Litigation Specialist for an insurance co (handling property claims) , in some states a verbal contract is binding, not sure about your state. In PA it is. Coupled with the proof that he wired you the money, an attorney will have a pretty strong case against you.

Regarding the repairs, that could swing either way. Ill tell you this though, it will cost you more in legal fees if you try and defend it(should he sue you with the assistance of a lawyer), or try and go after him for the repairs (should you hire one).

[dedalos]

The truck DID have insurance on it. Liability insurance. I was paying for the insurance while he drove it.
Don't accuse me in not having honor. I still open doors for people, pull the chair out for my lady, and have a FIRM belief in the Marine Corps Values. HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITMENT.

It's GREED on his end that he used my vehicle, totaled it out and then wants all of his money back. If that is O.K. can I come to YOUR house, Holmes; loan you $50, borrow your computer and set it on fire, then demand all of my money back? I bet not.

Idk if you missed it or not BUT - I offered to pay him THREE THOUSAND dollars IF he offered to help fix it. (NOT even PAY to help fix it - just put in TIME.). SO using YOUR math HE gets 3 grand and I get nothing but a huge repair bill.

Bah, if I give you my car and you total it, I don;t care if I owe you a million dollars.  You are not getting paid until you fix my car first.  What is so hard about it?  He broke it, he needs to fix it and then ask for his loan money back.  The two should be separate things.

[Rich52]

Why are you asking this on a gameing forum and not asking a local attorney instead ?

Only advice I could give is to never borrow or loan large amounts of money from "friends". Theres something about money that turns people evil.

[Wayout]

Why are you asking this on a gameing forum and not asking a local attorney instead ?

Exactly.  You have a problem and it's just going to get worse by asking for advice from people that for the most part don't fully understand your situation or the laws in your area.  Most in your situation will ask for advice until someone says what they want to hear and then follow that course, right or wrong (usually wrong). 

Talk to a lawyer. They will tell you what you need to hear not what you want to hear.  It might be the best $100 you've ever spent.

[grizz441]

Does the truck drive?  Do you drive the truck?

Edit: Sounds like from a subsequent post it does not.  Tell him to foot the repair bill for the accident he caused and then you will pay him $6500 dollars, which is still a rip off for you because you have to do the leg work to get it fixed and because parts that aren't necessarily "in need of repair" might have actually been slightly damage in the accident and there will likely be a future problem sooner than if there had been no accident at all.

[RufusLeaking]

Marine, you still on active duty or in the reserves?  Might want to talk to a JAG if you're still in.  They usually know a decent amount of contract law...

Good advice.

Reaching way back to an undergrad course in contract law, it is all about making the parties whole. You need to pay him back the loan, and he needs to repair the truck.

If you all can't get an agreement, a court will probably recommend arbitration.

Good luck.

[ToeTag]

......or find out what the current salvage value of the truck is....then pay him that....

The most expensive mistake he made!

[Widewing]

Good advice.

Reaching way back to an undergrad course in contract law, it is all about making the parties whole. You need to pay him back the loan, and he needs to repair the truck.

If you all can't get an agreement, a court will probably recommend arbitration.

Good luck.

I think it goes deeper than that... He may be entitled to any depreciation associated with the truck being in a major accident. Think CarFax.... A major accident can reduce the value of vehicle by as much as 20% at resale. Some courts have considered that to be part of the compensation.

Yes, he owes his former friend the $6500. And likewise, his friend, who failed to exercise due diligence when borrowing the truck, is fully responsible for the repair and to return everything in the vehicle at the time of the accident. Plus, a judge may find that the value of the truck has been diminished by the accident and award the difference as well (assuming evidence is presented to that being a fact).

Get several estimates, a court will likely allow any that is not grossly outside the average...

Next time, get everything in writing as to terms, conditions and stipulations. The problem you both face is that in the absence of documentation, a court must base a decision upon what can be established via preponderance of the evidence. You can prove that he was driving the truck and violated traffic regs, which led to the accident. He may be able to prove he gave you $6500, but without any paper, his argument isn't slam-dunk. As RufusLeaking said, this will probably end up in arbitration... However, you will have a small advantage walking in the door. I would not be surprised if it was decided that both walk away as is....

[MarineUS]

little busy so I'll answer one of the questions (before I burn the house down ) - I asked here first because I hate dealing with lawyers at their office and the people who play AH are from all walks of life. Truckers, doctors, teachers, tattoo artist etc. This is a culture all in it's own.

[CAP1]

Alright here is the situation:

When my friend was in Iraq he sent me a loan of $6500 to help me buy my car with the knowledge that when he got back home, he would get to use my truck to move and that I would pay him back. This is fine and dandy UNTIL the day he is bringing the truck home.

I'm at work and I suddenly get four calls in a row....I've already guessed what happened. Anyway, he says the he wrecked the truck and it is now considered "totaled" - though it wasn't.....

So now (a year later) I'm still stuck with a wrecked truck in my yard that I can't afford to fix, he won't give me the tool box or the stereo back that was in it (he took it out after the wreck so it wouldn't get stolen.), and now he is demanding I repay the loan.

I told him I would have offered to pay it if he hadn't or wrecked it and that I would have paid him $3000 if he offered to help put in the time to fix the truck (which he didn't do).

Fun stuff. Not only do I have to fix it on my own (insurance was only liability at the time), I have to pay to have it inspected as well.


Break it down outline style:

Friend loans money in exchange for use of truck and to be paid back.
Friend wrecks truck, doesn't pay to have it fixed.
Friend won't give back items that were in/on vehicle.
Friend demanding payment of loan after he totaled my vehicle.


So I guess the question is: Chances of which side winning in court are?

this is gonna sound cold.....but it is/was his responsibility to return that truck to you in the condition in which it was when he took possession of it.
 if he's not willing to do this, then he is no friend.

[M0nkey_Man]

little busy so I'll answer one of the questions (before I burn the house down ) - I asked here first because I hate dealing with lawyers at their office and the people who play AH are from all walks of life. Truckers, doctors, teachers, tattoo artist etc. This is a culture all in it's own.

you forgot JROTC nerds

[Shane]

I did sleep at a holiday inn express last night.

One thing that seems to have been overlooked, is that the friend had possession of the truck and wrecked it, right?  As such... his insurance should cover anything related to that, whether repairs or salvage value (and they can possibly be sued for damages, loss of whatever, blah blah)

Marine would still owe his friend the $6,500 (separate issue really, altho' as "friends" or more likely arbitrated, they might reach mutual agreement by combining the two issues.)

[The Jekyll]

  A bad situation and hopefully some have learned a lesson.

Bottom line has been correctly posted before, if you borrowed the money, you owe the money. What you did with the money is irrelevant.

As it happens you purchased the truck with the money, separate issue.

the truck was wrecked, you have a wrecked truck. Inadequate insurance to pay for the damages is a lesson learned.

You may want to try and sue for the damages to the truck from negligence, problem is most courts limit small claims to $5k, check your county clerk and find out. Otherwise your going to civil court, attorneys, and related costs, probably cheaper to fix the truck on your own. Also, a judge may find issue with your claim in Small Claims court if you never discussed who was responsible for any damages to the truck should an accident happen while he was driving. From my experience with a car that was stolen from me and involved in a wreck, I was responsible for the repairs to my car, not the person who stole the vehicle.

It is a bad situation but not because of the actions of your friend, but from mutual initial trust involving a large amount of money.

IMO, you pay the money you owe, try small claims to recover what you can if you can get a judge to agree with you, learn from this and consider it what we call....."Stupid Tax".  Believe me your not the first to learn this lesson.

Best of luck.

[Widewing]

You may want to try and sue for the damages to the truck from negligence, problem is most courts limit small claims to $5k, check your county clerk and find out. Otherwise your going to civil court, attorneys, and related costs, probably cheaper to fix the truck on your own. Also, a judge may find issue with your claim in Small Claims court if you never discussed who was responsible for any damages to the truck should an accident happen while he was driving. From my experience with a car that was stolen from me and involved in a wreck, I was responsible for the repairs to my car, not the person who stole the vehicle.

Establishing that his friend is responsible is easy in most states.... There's no need to discuss who will repair a loaned vehicle. It is assumed that the person borrowing the vehicle (or anything else) will exercise reasonable care. Reasonable care means a level or degree of caution and concern for the safety of himself, others and the property in his care that an ordinarily prudent and rational person would use in the circumstances. This is a subjective test of determining if a person is negligent, meaning he did not exercise reasonable care. Being cited for blowing a stop sign and getting T-boned in said intersection easily passes the test for determining that his friend was negligent. Negligence can result in all types of accidents causing physical and/or property damage. The friend is responsible for the damage to the truck.

Moreover, a thief is also responsible for damage. You can't get a judgement in criminal court, but you certainly can do so in civil court. The odds of ever collecting against that judgement are remote, and it's likely that you will have to foot the repair bill. However, that does not mean that you are responsible for the damage. Also, you can take a casualty or loss deduction on your Federal tax return and recover at least a percentage of the loss, but the monetary value of the loss must exceed 10% of your adjusted gross income and your loss was not covered by insurance. If your adjusted gross income is $40,000, then a loss of $4100 can be taken as a deduction (if you itemize your return). MarineUS, keep this in mind....

[MarineUS]

Thanks guys. Lots of stuff to take into consideration. Just making sure I wasn't the only one going    .

I appreciate it.