Author Topic: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses  (Read 1016 times)

Offline Vinkman

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CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« on: September 06, 2011, 02:22:57 PM »
This may be a question for the coad guys, because I don't know if anyone else can answer it, but if you can....here goes.

I understand how lost or delayed packets during internet communication with the server can cause bullet hits to be misses. Is there is a time stamp on bullet information that the coad and or the server checks to make sure a hit packet isn't coming from 5 minutes ago because it finally made it through cyber space? Otherwise your wing might fall off on the way back to base with no-one around, from a hit you took back in the furball.  

What I'm wondering is whether my CPU can cause time delays in calculating bullet path/collisions because in a crowded furball it can't kep up with all the calculations within the time constant allowed for valid bullet hits?

I assume that if the 'Packet' is lost, I see a hit sprite but it never registers with the server/bandit so no damage is recorded. But I've also seen situations where I don't get sprites, and I can't believe I missed the bandit. Lousy aim jokes aside...I'm wondering if it's possible that a CPU can't calculate all that's happening in the game fast enough to keep up with ALL the fired rounds from my airplane? And by the time the background loops for all the various outgoing and incoming bullets are complete, the game is rejecting some percent because they are "too late" to be used.

Personal experience seems to indicate that this happens more frequently in very player-dense areas. While frame rates let us know very clearly how our GPUs are keeping up, I know of nothing that lets us know if the CPU is not keeping up.

So is what I'm talking about [CPU not keeping up with bullet calculations] even possible, and is there a way to know if my CPU is not fast enough?

Thoughts or answers?  :D   :salute

Thanks all.

Vinkman
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 02:26:51 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline Bino

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 02:51:27 PM »
This may be a question for the coad guys, because I don't know if anyone else can answer it...

Yeah, probably only Da Coad Guyz can answer.  

As far as I've been able to glean, the server in the AH office is mostly a traffic cop that directs packets without doing much of anything to or with them.  The Front End (FE) on your desktop - and on the desktop of the bandit in your sights - is the program that looks inside those packets for game-related info.  Without knowing 1.) how the FE detects network lag and drops you from UDP down to TCP or 2.) how the FE calculates hits and 3.) how those two relate to each other...  *shrug*

And my understanding could be all wrong, too.  

BTW, what CPU are you running?


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Offline Vinkman

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 03:09:41 PM »
Yeah, probably only Da Coad Guyz can answer.  

As far as I've been able to glean, the server in the AH office is mostly a traffic cop that directs packets without doing much of anything to or with them.  The Front End (FE) on your desktop - and on the desktop of the bandit in your sights - is the program that looks inside those packets for game-related info.  Without knowing 1.) how the FE detects network lag and drops you from UDP down to TCP or 2.) how the FE calculates hits and 3.) how those two relate to each other...  *shrug*

And my understanding could be all wrong, too.  

BTW, what CPU are you running?


I'm runnign an Intel Quad core Duo. I forge thte clock settings. It's an 2006-2007-ish time frame. I remember Skuzzy mentioning something about multi-cpus note adding much and that faster processor is better than more processors. That info may no longer be up to date, but I wondered if this meant my CPU wasn't really up to task for this game.  :salute
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2011, 03:44:11 PM »
when you run the game in offline mode, do you have similar results just firing away at the drones? what sight are you using? either way, it's not your cpu, unless you're noticing some other things that you haven't mentioned.

what you're talking about is latency, and skuzzy posted a very good explanation about it somewhere around here, it was in a discussion on collisions...i don't feel like searching for it.
jarhed  
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2011, 10:35:34 PM »
when you run the game in offline mode, do you have similar results just firing away at the drones? what sight are you using? either way, it's not your cpu, unless you're noticing some other things that you haven't mentioned.

what you're talking about is latency, and skuzzy posted a very good explanation about it somewhere around here, it was in a discussion on collisions...i don't feel like searching for it.

I kill drones at 1000yds. I watch sprites actually trace a path over the aircraft. Happens in game too, but only when there are not a lot of cons in icon range.
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Offline Charge

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 02:38:56 AM »
I have better weapon performance in offline mode, it's always been that way. Should it be the same online?  :huh

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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 05:03:31 AM »
I have better weapon performance in offline mode, it's always been that way. Should it be the same online?  :huh

-C+

Same here, about 50% reduction in hits compared to offline.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 08:04:36 AM »
I kill drones at 1000yds. I watch sprites actually trace a path over the aircraft. Happens in game too, but only when there are not a lot of cons in icon range.
if it was your processor or something like that, offline would behave similar to online. what you are experiencing is latency and packet loss...skuzzy explains it much better than i could.

in very simplistic terms, lets say you have an "average" ping rate of 50ms to the lwma...you get into a dogfight with a guy who also has an "average" ping rate of 50ms...there is a 100ms separation between you which means the events your system registers will be slightly different than what the other persons system registers by that many milliseconds. in a perfect world both of your systems would register the data between you would be synchronously at the server, but we don't have a perfect world, especially the u.s. retardnet infrastucture (overburdened and old). packet loss (data that is dropped enroute to the server) for whatever reason will break that synchronization and cause you to experience the things you describe. it's worsened if both parties are experiencing packet loss and it seems a lot more people are starting to experience it to varying degrees for various reasons, some areas are worse than others.

with latency, you fire your weapons at another player, your system sends data to the server that says "register event on object xxx at yyy location", the server does a check for that information and sends data to the other persons computer...the other persons computer reports back that its object xxx is at yyyyy location, not yyy...the server then registers a miss and all you see on you screen is rubber bullets. with packet loss it's worse, data necessary for the server to properly register the event is lost before it even gets to the server and never gets registered on the server and the other players system...

again very simplistic and there are other variables but, packet loss and latency are the key elements. not much you can do about it unless you want to move to wherever the arena servers are and tap into the network they are connected to. even then, if your system struggles when you get into a crowd, you could still experience similar issues because it's not processing the information as quickly as needs to.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 08:07:27 AM »
I have better weapon performance in offline mode, it's always been that way. Should it be the same online?  :huh

-C+
no sir it can't be the same. if you could somehow have a zero ping rate and no packet loss at all to the arena server, then online would be the same as offline.
jarhed  
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 09:57:16 AM »
if it was your processor or something like that, offline would behave similar to online. what you are experiencing is latency and packet loss...skuzzy explains it much better than i could.

in very simplistic terms, lets say you have an "average" ping rate of 50ms to the lwma...you get into a dogfight with a guy who also has an "average" ping rate of 50ms...there is a 100ms separation between you which means the events your system registers will be slightly different than what the other persons system registers by that many milliseconds. in a perfect world both of your systems would register the data between you would be synchronously at the server, but we don't have a perfect world, especially the u.s. retardnet infrastucture (overburdened and old). packet loss (data that is dropped enroute to the server) for whatever reason will break that synchronization and cause you to experience the things you describe. it's worsened if both parties are experiencing packet loss and it seems a lot more people are starting to experience it to varying degrees for various reasons, some areas are worse than others.

with latency, you fire your weapons at another player, your system sends data to the server that says "register event on object xxx at yyy location", the server does a check for that information and sends data to the other persons computer...the other persons computer reports back that its object xxx is at yyyyy location, not yyy...the server then registers a miss and all you see on you screen is rubber bullets. with packet loss it's worse, data necessary for the server to properly register the event is lost before it even gets to the server and never gets registered on the server and the other players system...

again very simplistic and there are other variables but, packet loss and latency are the key elements. not much you can do about it unless you want to move to wherever the arena servers are and tap into the network they are connected to. even then, if your system struggles when you get into a crowd, you could still experience similar issues because it's not processing the information as quickly as needs to.

I've heard this before but as explained by HTC staff, MY FE is the only thing determining my hits on a bandit. To my bullets he IS where he APEARS on my screen. My FE then transmits the hit information to the server, which passes it on to the bandit to let him know he's been hit. His front end registers the hit and activates Damage, then confirms damage back to the server, which passes it back to my FE which animates the damage. I get that.

This means that hit sprites could be animated on my machine regardless of whether the server recognized them, and they would not be affected by Latency issues, only the damage would.
 
Does the game wait for confirmation from the server of a registered hit, before animating sprites? This would mean Latency/lag effects the sprite too.

I guess I assume the sprites would always show, and in that way I would know my aim was fine, but I have lost hit packets in transmission. But perhaps this created many upset pilots how thought the bandit had a forcefield hack.  :lol  So perhaps HTC linked the sprites to registered server hits as well, so that non-registered hits look like misses. I think I agree with that approach, I just want to understand it because there are three possibilities in these situations:
 
1) I think I'm missing, so I adjust what I'm doing (this leads to frustration and disbelief when shooting.)
2) My processor isn't keeping up with all the required calculations, so the problem is in my hardware. ( I can get a better processor)
3) Lag/Latency is causing hits to not be registered or displayed.  (  I understand it so I deal with it. )

knowing would be good, because the first two I can do something about. The last one is a fact of life as you say.

 :salute Vinkman
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 10:33:47 AM »
have you tried running pingplotter to the lwma server? the time to do it would be when you notice the issue is occurring...it would show you if/where along the way that there is a slow down in your connection and any packet loss that may be occurring.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 11:55:11 AM »

Does the game wait for confirmation from the server of a registered hit, before animating sprites? This would mean Latency/lag effects the sprite too.


I am not Skuzzy, but I can't see it being that way.  If that were the case, if you got a little bit of lag, you would see no sprites, then it would light up like a christmas tree after the connection caught up.  It would be similar to if you've ever been really hammered at the top of a stall or something when lag was occurring, did you notice you were hearing pings for a few seconds after he made his pass?  The sprites would behave similarly.  I've never seen that happen, or seen any mention of it happening.

I think it's an extremely safe bet to say your bullets hit and show sprites on your PC with no interaction from the outside world.  How much of that makes it to the server to be officially counted as damage is where things get fuzzy and you start to run into rubber bullet phenomena.

Wiley.
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 02:35:25 PM »
I am not Skuzzy, but I can't see it being that way.  If that were the case, if you got a little bit of lag, you would see no sprites, then it would light up like a christmas tree after the connection caught up.  It would be similar to if you've ever been really hammered at the top of a stall or something when lag was occurring, did you notice you were hearing pings for a few seconds after he made his pass?  The sprites would behave similarly.  I've never seen that happen, or seen any mention of it happening.

I think it's an extremely safe bet to say your bullets hit and show sprites on your PC with no interaction from the outside world.  How much of that makes it to the server to be officially counted as damage is where things get fuzzy and you start to run into rubber bullet phenomena.

Wiley.

I think you are probably right Wiley :salute, which brings me back to my original question. If my Spites don't show up, and I think I'm aiming correctly, then it must be a FE issue with computation time. Thoughts?
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2011, 02:53:54 PM »
Hit sprites not showing up, is not uncommon.  There are only so many animations that can play per frame.  Once they are exhausted, no more will play until others stop and free up some slots.

So if you are in a very, very busy area, there is a fair chance the hit sprite simply cannot be played.
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: CPU speed, time stamps, and bullet misses
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2011, 03:06:54 PM »
Hit sprites not showing up, is not uncommon.  There are only so many animations that can play per frame.  Once they are exhausted, no more will play until others stop and free up some slots.

So if you are in a very, very busy area, there is a fair chance the hit sprite simply cannot be played.

Thanks for the info Skuzzy.  :salute

...and that is seperate from hit calculations?
...and any probable chance that calculations of hits can hit a limit on my FE

thanks for the info.

Vinkman
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