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[Shuffler]

if i recall, there was somethign about having longtube headers, tripping a few codes.......a buddy of mine had the same thing. the dealer removed the longtubes, but stock manifolds back on, and replaced all of the cats.

Long tubes will trip a cel. A tune will fix it.

[CAP1]

Long tubes will trip a cel. A tune will fix it.

 yea, but tunes will void warranty. my buddy with his 2010 beat the crap outta the dealer. when they corrected his, they gave him "new" warranty bumper to bumper for 3 years, 36k miles starting from when they fixed it.

 next time he stops by the shop, i'll get a couple pics of his car, and post em.

 i'm waiting on a callback from a ford techie, trying to see if there's a non-warranty voiding way to make the boss302 track key work on a gt. i don't think they use different computers, but rather just different programming....so if i'm right, the track key should work.......

[Shuffler]

The camaro v8s track tunings. The camaro v6 does not. Also note that with mod friendly dealers the warrantee is not affected as long as it can't be traced to the tune causing the issue. You have to have a good dealer for that. It is not written in stone.


In any case long tubes require a tune and shorties usually do not on the camaro.

[Hajo]

It is merely a matter of recalibrating the PCM when changes are made such as exhausts and air intake.

This however doesn't include superchargers.  The Modern Hemi has VVT.  Makes it much easier. The

owner can recal the PCM and the Throttle if he knows the procedure.

Throwing Codes at the point discussed earlier mostly from my experience involve oxygen sensors.

[Slate]

The camaro v8s track tunings. The camaro v6 does not. Also note that with mod friendly dealers the warrantee is not affected as long as it can't be traced to the tune causing the issue. You have to have a good dealer for that. It is not written in stone.


In any case long tubes require a tune and shorties usually do not on the camaro.

  GM computers keep a record of any calibration programmed into it and can be verified as a"Factory Program". When an Engine or Drivetrain repair is submitted under Warranty a printout of the vehicle's programming is verified or the Claim will be denied.  
  Unknown what the other makes procedure is.
 

[CAP1]

It is merely a matter of recalibrating the PCM when changes are made such as exhausts and air intake.

This however doesn't include superchargers.  The Modern Hemi has VVT.  Makes it much easier. The

owner can recal the PCM and the Throttle if he knows the procedure.

Throwing Codes at the point discussed earlier mostly from my experience involve oxygen sensors.

 i know......but there's almost always a trace of anything changed left, even when reverted back to stock programming. in fords case, there was an internal tsb due to one of bama's tunes cooking the #8 cylinder./

[Slate]

i know......but there's almost always a trace of anything changed left, even when reverted back to stock programming. in fords case, there was an internal tsb due to one of bama's tunes cooking the #8 cylinder./

    Sample from GM:
  General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission, diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) and exhaust particulate filter failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket Power-Up Kits) engine and transmission control calibrations being used. When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components, such as the engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft, universal joints and the rear axle to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy that prevents any UNAUTHORIZED dealer warranty claim submissions to any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM calibration is confirmed, even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

[1701E]

Rather late to the party, but was up in PA the past week so got some scenic shots of mine and Spinnich's main rides.

Scion tC driven by myself:

I typically drive this anyways. We have a little selection around here; Ford F-250 SD, Mazda pickup, Honda Accord, Toyota Corolla, Scion tC.

Spinnich's new Impreza:

[B4Buster]

I've posted a pic of this before, but here's a picture I took a few weeks ago of meh baby. I did my first solo, solo cross country, and got my PPL in this bird. She's very dear to me.




Hopefully, I'll get some left seat time in this girl over the next few months flying some dead legs.

[CAP1]

    Sample from GM:
  General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission, diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) and exhaust particulate filter failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket Power-Up Kits) engine and transmission control calibrations being used. When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components, such as the engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft, universal joints and the rear axle to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy that prevents any UNAUTHORIZED dealer warranty claim submissions to any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM calibration is confirmed, even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

 that's close to how the ford one read for the dead #8 cylinder one. people were putting these tunes on their engines, and #8 was running so hot as to mess up the rings(i think). prolly was going lean.
 they had the tsb telling the service personell to look specifically for ANY signs of modifications having been done, then removed.

[Hajo]

Diablo Preditors the culprit in Mopars.

People not knowing what they are doing loading in stored tunes.
My tune will stay stock.  I have a lifetime warranty.

Raising shift limiters, RPMs, programing stiffer shifting in the autos all available on the preditor just to name a few.

Not a good idea...but people still buy them and play......destroying their warranties and their vehicles.

Then they complain when they have problems and the Dealer voids the warranty when they take it in for repairs

[CAP1]

Diablo Preditors the culprit in Mopars.

People not knowing what they are doing loading in stored tunes.
My tune will stay stock.  I have a lifetime warranty.

Raising shift limiters, RPMs, programing stiffer shifting in the autos all available on the preditor just to name a few.

Not a good idea...but people still buy them and play......destroying their warranties and their vehicles.

Then they complain when they have problems and the Dealer voids the warranty when they take it in for repairs

yea.....i've got no intentions of changine my tune, unless it's a legit way right from ford....as in the track key setup. THAT is a beautiful thing that they did with the boss302's. rumors are that there's gonna be one available for the 013 gt too.

 the other thing i thought about........if i were to purchase a supercharger from ford motorsports....the good tvs blower, and have it installed by the dealer, along with the necessary tune, that wouldn't hurt my warranty at all......but it's an expensive bellybutton blower though.

[Golfer]

I doubt you'll see a sanctioned retroactive track key for the GT. and I don't believe Bama tunes were the ones cooking #8. Bama offers a warranty on your motor when you buy a tuner from them and afaik haven't cooked one yet.

When I get my race car built I'll be throwing a procharger on my little Eco-box.  450RWHP and keep the fuel economy when needed

I just need my offer to be accepted on the house I'm interested in and I'll be getting to work.

[CAP1]

I doubt you'll see a sanctioned retroactive track key for the GT. and I don't believe Bama tunes were the ones cooking #8. Bama offers a warranty on your motor when you buy a tuner from them and afaik haven't cooked one yet.

When I get my race car built I'll be throwing a procharger on my little Eco-box.  450RWHP and keep the fuel economy when needed

I just need my offer to be accepted on the house I'm interested in and I'll be getting to work.

 i could be wrong....there was somewhere that steered towards them that i'd read a few months back. can't find that now....but here's a good bit of info on them......the bolded is shamelessly copy/pasted from svt performance.....

 The cause of the #8 failures.

Put simply, it is NOT a Factory Ford problem.
Detonation is causing the failures.
The short of it:
Tunes with as much as 5 degrees of 'Global' spark added, knock sensor activity in some cases decreased (exagerating the issue).

The long of it:
These motors are octane limited. From the factory they run low ignition timing due to the following factors:
1. 11:1 compression
2. Variable cam timing which increases dynamic compression
3. Low *motor* octane pump gas fuel

Below is a short list of just a few Factory settings in a GTU6 calibration.
Stoich :14.079
WOT base Lambda: .85 to 5K richening to .82 by 6250 (that's .82 x 14.079)
Individual cylinder timing modifier: -2 degrees from 4-7K RPM on the #8 (but not the only cylinder with reduced timing)
Octane Spark modifier: -3 degrees @ high load
Knock sensor retard max: -6 to 4K dropping to -4 by 6K
Knock sensor retard rate: 1 to 1.5 (that's seconds per degree removed), so it would take 6 seconds to remove 4 degrees at 6K RPM (at a rate of 1.5).

On top of that there are 16 Boarderline knock tables, 16 MTB spark tables with all the conditional modifiers you can think of, including individual cylinder multipliers. (Obviously Ford knows some cylinders run hotter than others)

This is still a good'ol Mod motor and suffers from the same heat issues in the rear of the driver side head as all the others. As evidence the Factory stock tune removes 2 degrees of timing from the #8.

Now for the real 'cause' of the problem....

1. The aftermarket was rushed to produce support for the 2011 Fords. With an all new ECU on top of a new drivetrain, this would normally take a good year of testing to get proper software onto the market, yet tuning support was released just weeks after the 5.0 hit the dealer lots.

2. Due to the design and complexity of the new ECU, the tuning strategy is NOT the same as any previous Ford ECU. This was not realized at first. Torque calculation (for one) plays a much larger role. Widebands, frequency based maff, and variable cam timing have been added just to name a few obvious changes.

3. No tuner/shop in the country was prepared to properly tune these vehicles the way Ford does it....how could they. Ford does not offer tune training classes.

4. Popular datalog software used on previous Fords doesn't work correctly on the 2011's. Go WOT while datalogging and the software drops data, including Knock sensor activity and total timing. To add insult to injury those tuners with Dynojets have ended up with Blown stacks when running the 2011's on their dyno. Now they have no dyno and no data! What's a tuner to do?

5. The old way of tuning an all-motor Ford was employed.... (Ford MUST have tuned these motors just as conservative as previous years right???) Add timing and lean it out. Low and behold it made more power on the dyno, but running in mild detonation does make more power on the dyno.

Those of us with Dataloggers that DO work on the 5.0 immediately saw that adding timing resulted in higher knock sensor activity on pump gas, and we therefore did NOT increase ignition timing.

Now for the 'Fix'....

1. Run STOCK IGNITION TIMING if you are running pump gas!

2. A *Good* custom tuner can make just as much (if not more) with stock ignition timing *if* they tune the variable camshafts correctly. This typically requires a few extra hours of dyno time. And motors with the same mods don't respond the same to TiVCT changes, this means TiVCT tables customized for each vehicle. No mail order plug & play if you want Maximum power out of this new system!

3. Convert over to E85 and run all the timing you want. Kinsler racing has a fuel filter that fits in the stock location yet flows far more than the stock filter. I'd advise a 50-100 micron element when running E85. Again, a Good custom tuner can tune these cars on E85 without issues. If they know where to look Ford even provided 5.0L Ethanol tables to make it fairly easy.

FWIW, I've heard rumors that Ford's solution is to reduce the compression ratio. That will also 'fix' the problem, but at reduced fuel economy and performance.

[Golfer]

Tl;dr on account of short night tonight.

AmericanMuscle and the Bama boys there warranty their work and last I checked hadn't fried anything. If their tune is the problem, they'll buy you a new motor.

I don't remember all the tuning shops that had issues with the Coyote #8 but in all cases IIRC the knock sensors were disabled which left the motor vunerable to detonation and a host of other problems.

The Bama canned tunes don't disable the knock sensors.