P51 Mustang into the crowd at the Reno Races just now

[Puma44]

Well said, Golfer.  A rapid onset of high G without knowing it's coming and no anti-G equipment can result in GLOC incapacitation. 

[Tordon22]

I thought it was medical from the way I had read it, finally worked up the courage to watch the video this morning. Nasty and fast, not the way I thought it was when I read about it. Seeing those photos obviously confirms it.


I posted this in squad and might as well here too as a testament to the character of the departed pilot. Years ago my father had just purchased a plane in FL and was returning it home with another family member when weather made them stop at a small grass field. A man came running up after they landed and offered them some hangar space for the storm, wouldn't take no for an offer. He moved several of his own planes around just to fit in the plane of someone he didn't even know. He took the pilots to lunch while the storm passed and offered his house as a place to stay for the night if needed, not allowing them to contribute a cent for the meal or the hospitality. The man of course turned out to be Jimmy Leeward. The aviation and racing community has lost a good one. 


And not just to him, but anyone who was injured in this tragic accident. Not a good day.

[Masherbrum]

I don't think Mr. Leeward was awake when he hit the ground.  An instant onset of 10G's (I was told the airplane had on board telemetry, so we may know what it actually was) when you're not ready for it is no laughing matter.  With that much force it can end up pushing you down in the cockpit, which happened to the pilot flying Voodoo back in the 90's when the same thing happened.  You can't see the pilot in the profile shots of the aircraft and even though it's a modified canopy you have to be pretty well bent over to have your whole head below the canopy out of view.

With that trim tab gone and flying in excess of 400 Knots you're looking at 200-225lbs of force needed to even move the stick.  Even if you were able to stay awake your only hope for a good outcome is to have the airplane climb skyward like Voodoo in the 90's.  That hundreds of people were not killed in this accident is huge stroke of good fortune in a very dark situation.

Your last line is in poor taste.

Excellent post(s) Golfer.   

[Puma44]

I thought it was medical from the way I had read it, finally worked up the courage to watch the video this morning. Nasty and fast, not the way I thought it was when I read about it. Seeing those photos obviously confirms it.


I posted this in squad and might as well here too as a testament to the character of the departed pilot. Years ago my father had just purchased a plane in FL and was returning it home with another family member when weather made them stop at a small grass field. A man came running up after they landed and offered them some hangar space for the storm, wouldn't take no for an offer. He moved several of his own planes around just to fit in the plane of someone he didn't even know. He took the pilots to lunch while the storm passed and offered his house as a place to stay for the night if needed, not allowing them to contribute a cent for the meal or the hospitality. The man of course turned out to be Jimmy Leeward. The aviation and racing community has lost a good one.  


And not just to him, but anyone who was injured in this tragic accident. Not a good day.

It would be difficult to know the real cause a day after and before the investiagation is competed as opposed to the media which rarely get the facts correct in the rush to get a story out.

[Widewing]

Well said, Golfer.  A rapid onset of high G without knowing it's coming and no anti-G equipment can result in GLOC incapacitation. 

Very true..

I was on the phone this afternoon with a friend who raced a P-51 and performed at airshows. He mentioned the Voodoo incident and stated that at 450 mph, the P-51 is heavily trimmed nose down to offset the tendency of the nose to come up. The loss of a trim tab will induce a sudden pitch up, sufficient to over-stress the airframe and induce GLOC. It's especially problematic for a pilot in his mid 70s, who will not have the conditioning of a 30-year old F-15 pilot. Moreover, you have absolutely no time to prepare yourself for the onset of g loading. A younger, more fit pilot may have not GLOC'd, but it's not likely. Hannah was young and in pretty good shape and he was out for more than long enough to have crashed.

I'll wager every P-51 racer will have its tab hinges inspected immediately. Indeed, perhaps the structure needs to be reinforced for racing. I would not be surprised is mandatory inspections were ordered for all racers in the unlimited class.

I've heard many comments made in the media about how the pilot managed to avoid the crowd... He didn't avoid anything, he was out like a light. It was simply good fortune or maybe Angels that steered the Mustang away from the general grandstand.

[jdpete75]

Widewing is very wise in this situation.

Jim was a pretty good guy and will be missed in more than just the racing community.  I build mustangs for a living (more recently Corsairs) and one thing that I (we) noticed is that he always remembered people and knew their names.  Today feels a bit like the day after Gerry Beck died, both were cut from the same cloth, the aviation community is less today without them and their attitudes. 

I, along with the rest of 74's crew are gonna go get really drunk now, i will repost on Monday.  Until then, please keep the speculation to minimum.

thanks

pete

[Lepape2]

I don't think Mr. Leeward was awake when he hit the ground.  An instant onset of 10G's (I was told the airplane had on board telemetry, so we may know what it actually was) when you're not ready for it is no laughing matter.  With that much force it can end up pushing you down in the cockpit, which happened to the pilot flying Voodoo back in the 90's when the same thing happened.  You can't see the pilot in the profile shots of the aircraft and even though it's a modified canopy you have to be pretty well bent over to have your whole head below the canopy out of view.

With that trim tab gone and flying in excess of 400 Knots you're looking at 200-225lbs of force needed to even move the stick.  Even if you were able to stay awake your only hope for a good outcome is to have the airplane climb skyward like Voodoo in the 90's.  That hundreds of people were not killed in this accident is huge stroke of good fortune in a very dark situation.

Your last line is in poor taste.

When people die, everything I say has to be triple-quad checked as to not offend anyone. I don't have that luxury as i'm not good at discussing such subjects. You know where I stand on this, I don't have to prove it. If finding... no not finding; if speculating on a culprit is bad taste, so be it and let me reassert my respect about the victims(+collateral) of this incident who need no explanations at all (sarcasm). I know we must resist our impatience to know the facts but I still believe that someone has not corrected enough the trim tab fault and if any such recommendation has been made on the matter.

As for the rest, what you said pretty much sums up the preliminary theory of what really might have happened. Do you think the reason the plane veered down after rolling inverted is because it snap stalled momentarily until the pilot had time to react (if he even could)? Like Puma just said, anyone claiming the pilot tried to avoid the crowd is just trying to comfort the majority who know nothing about G forces and have the power to dictate if such races can continue unabated. Now I was about to say something I'm not sure if it is 100% politically correct politician speech, so I will step away.

[EskimoJoe]

You're all idiots for arguing here.

Every one of you.

Say your condolences and GTFO. Every statement in harassment to one or another is disrespectful to lives
lost and injured.

[Lepape2]

I don't think he stalled after seeing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7SdkIWQwjc

You're all idiots for arguing here.

Every one of you.

Say your condolences and GTFO. Every statement in harassment to one or another is disrespectful to lives
lost and injured.

This is not a tread about paying respect to the victims, we all do it by default and take it as such. I'm sure you know everyone here pays his respect to them, either publicly or personally; else he is a monster. Arguing about what happened is the least we can do on this forum.

[Furball]

Awful situation.  Godspeed.

Thank goodness that it appears that there was no fire to go with the impact, could have been a whole lot worse.

You're all idiots for arguing here.

Every one of you.

Say your condolences and GTFO. Every statement in harassment to one or another is disrespectful to lives
lost and injured.

Well said.

[PR3D4TOR]

You're all idiots for arguing here.

Every one of you.

Say your condolences and GTFO. Every statement in harassment to one or another is disrespectful to lives
lost and injured.

+1

Rest in peace Mr. Leeward and the eight other persons killed.

[Dichotomy]

+1

Rest in peace Mr. Leeward and the eight other persons killed.

Indeed 

[SLCR]

I don't think Mr. Leeward was awake when he hit the ground.  An instant onset of 10G's (I was told the airplane had on board telemetry, so we may know what it actually was) when you're not ready for it is no laughing matter.  With that much force it can end up pushing you down in the cockpit, which happened to the pilot flying Voodoo back in the 90's when the same thing happened.  You can't see the pilot in the profile shots of the aircraft and even though it's a modified canopy you have to be pretty well bent over to have your whole head below the canopy out of view.

With that trim tab gone and flying in excess of 400 Knots you're looking at 200-225lbs of force needed to even move the stick.  Even if you were able to stay awake your only hope for a good outcome is to have the airplane climb skyward like Voodoo in the 90's.  That hundreds of people were not killed in this accident is huge stroke of good fortune in a very dark situation.

Your last line is in poor taste.

By the looks of this photo you are right about the G's pushing him down.  If witnesses are correct it was amazing that he did get enough lift in the last seconds to get the plane away from the bleachers.  RIP Mr. Leeward and the others that were involved.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

This puts AH damage modeling and real life into perspective. In AH you can fly 400mph with the whole left elevator missing where in real life the loss of only a tab does this.

One can only wonder how small the hits that were required to take down a plane in reality sometimes were.

[Puma44]

You're all idiots for arguing here.

Every one of you.

Say your condolences and GTFO. Every statement in harassment to one or another is disrespectful to lives
lost and injured.

Name calling is uncalled for, sir.  If you don't like the posts, you always have the choice to not open the thread.