Author Topic: spongebob makes kids stupid.  (Read 2506 times)

Offline gyrene81

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2011, 09:55:51 AM »
....<snip>...<blah>....<blah>...<blah>
i don't know about the conclusions of the article but, all that blathering is proof the internet has had a retarding effect on some people.  :rolleyes:  

in typical fashion you completely failed to comprehend something that is easily understood by anyone who took the time to actually read the entire passage.

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The cartoon character SpongeBob SquarePants is in hot water from a study suggesting that watching just nine minutes of that program can cause short-term attention and learning problems in 4-year-olds.

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Previous research has linked TV-watching with long-term attention problems in children, but the new study suggests more immediate problems can occur after very little exposure - results that parents of young kids should be alert to, the study authors said.

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The results should be interpreted cautiously because of the study's small size, but the data seem robust and bolster the idea that media exposure is a public health issue, said Dr. Dimitri Christakis.

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University of Virginia psychology professor Angeline Lillard, the lead author, said Nickelodeon's "SpongeBob" shouldn't be singled out. She found similar problems in kids who watched other fast-paced cartoon programming.

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The study has several limitations. For one thing, the kids weren't tested before they watched TV.
 
But Lillard said none of the children had diagnosed attention problems and all got similar scores on parent evaluations of their behavior.

that particular study used three control groups from the same socio-economic background and simply suggests children can be negatively affected by television programming in various way along the development path, which in this case is the age of four where certain "self control abilities" are developed. the article specifically states the study had limitations and like similar previous studies, the results should be interpreted cautiously. had you actually read the article in full to the point of comprehension, it is possible (though doubful) that you would not have wasted as much of your time spouting the amount of nonsense you posted.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 11:06:56 AM by gyrene81 »
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Offline DaCoon

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2011, 10:17:32 AM »
I'll just say this much.  At 5 yrs old Speed Racer was the cartoon as far as I was concerned. But after watching an episode I really didn't have the itch to put extending saw blades in the front bumper of the family wagon.

Nowadays at 42, saw blades in the front of my truck are looking a lil more do-able..... :devil
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Offline katanaso

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2011, 02:02:16 PM »
I'm not going to debate you on this, because it's obvious you're trying to argue a point and 'impress' readers at the same time.

But a few things:

<snip> Besides her degree in psychology, she has no other bona fides to speak on the subject.  This would make citing her as a source shaky, if not a fallacy (argument from authority).

Her Ph.D in Psychology, along with her numerous publications, experience, and apparent status in the community would be the opposite of 'shaky' when citing her as a source.  She could be considered an 'expert' based on her body of work.  I don't know who she is, but I'm pointing out where you're incorrect.

As for Christakis, he appears to be the one responsible for the study.  Therefore, why would such a respected psychologist* release such an inconclusive and shoddy study that even a highschooler could shoot down?  He has some sort of ulterior motive, be it desperation or the belief that because he stamped "SCIENCE" on his ideas means that the world should believe him.

Searching his name through Google shows that this area IS what he has been researching for years. 


Face it, this study is baloney.  I've done my research this time.

EDIT: The study's faults, as listed on the site:

Small sample size
Low sample diversity
No baseline test
No long-term testing

Other questions:
Was there a crossover test? (Were the kids exposed to both stimuli via two rounds of testing?)
Was there a placebo control? (Did the kids expect to do worse after watching a particular show?)
What TV did the kids watch previously?
Was the study double-blind?

This study is not useful.  To analogize, if the test was between kids who ran a 5k and kids who sat in a chair for the same amount of time, the kids who sat in the chair would do better on a test if both were tested immediately afterward.  However, it is well documented that running 5k races does not make one dumber.

-Penguin

I'm not going to pick on you, because you're a kid in high school, but you're style and argument have a feel that you're rehashing the lectures you've been learning in an honors class. 

Basically, you don't know everything that you're talking about.  Yet.
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Offline Penguin

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2011, 02:29:35 PM »
i don't know about the conclusions of the article but, all that blathering is proof the internet has had a retarding effect on some people.  :rolleyes: 

in typical fashion you completely failed to comprehend something that is easily understood by anyone who took the time to actually read the entire passage.


that particular study used three control groups from the same socio-economic background and simply suggests children can be negatively affected by television programming in various way along the development path, which in this case is the age of four where certain "self control abilities" are developed. the article specifically states the study had limitations and like similar previous studies, the results should be interpreted cautiously. had you actually read the article in full to the point of comprehension, it is possible (though doubful) that you would not have wasted as much of your time spouting the amount of nonsense you posted.

Self contradiction and ad hominem.  How can you both comprehend and not comprehend the conclusions of the article, while still managing to falsely accuse others of not understanding it?

Having homogeneous samples compromises the results in all fields of science.  What they did is the exact opposite of what is supposed to happen in a clincal trial- the samples must be random and heterogeneous.  If the results were to be read "cautiously", why would he publish them at all?  Read between the lines.  Why would a well respected psychologist release the inconclusive findings of a poorly conducted study?

I'm not going to debate you on this, because it's obvious you're trying to argue a point and 'impress' readers at the same time.

But a few things:

Her Ph.D in Psychology, along with her numerous publications, experience, and apparent status in the community would be the opposite of 'shaky' when citing her as a source.  She could be considered an 'expert' based on her body of work.  I don't know who she is, but I'm pointing out where you're incorrect.

Searching his name through Google shows that this area IS what he has been researching for years. 


I'm not going to pick on you, because you're a kid in high school, but you're style and argument have a feel that you're rehashing the lectures you've been learning in an honors class. 

Basically, you don't know everything that you're talking about.  Yet.

Not going to debate, eh?  It seems that you are (this is all in good fun, anyway).

Nope, everything in this debate came from my own head, hands, and research.

A PhD. in psychology does not equate to knowledge of all parts of psychology, and Lillard has clearly put her effort into studying how children maintain a pretense of fantasy while still acting one out to the fullest.  I may be wrong on this, because the publications I found said 'pretense', 'pretence', and 'pretend'.  I assume that it is the first, since the second is not a word and the third would be redundant in the description of works dealing with fantasy.  Have you even read her list of publications?

If you'd like to, here it is: http://faculty.virginia.edu/early-social-cognition-lab/cv.html

Are we talking about the same person, here?  Dr. Lillard is a woman.  I comepletely agree that Dr. Christakis is well-qualified in the field of developmental psychology.  That is exactly why I think that such a poorly conducted study would be unlike him.  He is either ignorant to the requirements of rigor, or incompetent to the point that he cannot fulfill them.

-Penguin

Offline gyrene81

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2011, 03:06:23 PM »
Self contradiction and ad hominem.  How can you both comprehend and not comprehend the conclusions of the article, while still managing to falsely accuse others of not understanding it?

Having homogeneous samples compromises the results in all fields of science.  What they did is the exact opposite of what is supposed to happen in a clincal trial- the samples must be random and heterogeneous.  If the results were to be read "cautiously", why would he publish them at all?  Read between the lines.  Why would a well respected psychologist release the inconclusive findings of a poorly conducted study?
i would have thought the last time you tried to argue with me taught you a lesson, but i suppose in the interim you have again filled your head with a false sense of intellectual superiority. your erroneous use of the term "ad hominem" illustrates just how much your head has been filled. i committed no fallacy in rejecting your arguments based on any irrelevant fact about you.

fact: you did not fully read the entire article before jumping to a completely erroneous conclusion. an attribute you are known for. the article was written by a journalist, not the researchers themselves. and, the journalist clearly cautions the reader about the conclusions of the study.

fact: you have neither the experience, education nor credentials to question the research of anyone with so much as an associates degree. just because someone in your family or your buddies pats you on the head and gives you a cookie everytime you say something semi intelligent does not make you an expert in any field.

fact: you did not read the actual research document before jumping to the conclusion that the research was flawed. your opinion was based solely on a quick perusal of what you considered key points in the article written by a journalist.

fact: there have been many studies of various sizes since the introduction of television and they have all had similar conclusions from the researchers. it just so happens this particular research was conducted on three separate groups of children of the same age from similar socio economic backgrounds in controlled settings, exactly as it should have been.


A PhD. in psychology does not equate to knowledge of all parts of psychology, and Lillard has clearly put her effort into studying how children maintain a pretense of fantasy while still acting one out to the fullest.
unfortunately for you, that phd puts her eons ahead of you in the field of psychology, especially child psychology. that is not a fallacy rejection of your argument based on irrelevant facts about you, it is simply fact.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2011, 04:37:54 PM »
Wow........   Is everyone as impressed as I am???                 :rolleyes:


 Peng. when your next sailing trip??   soon I hope.






   :salute

 BTW: none of this is new they've been saying TV rots the mind since,well since TV came out.

Offline 68ZooM

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2011, 04:39:52 PM »


 Peng. when your next sailing trip??   soon I hope.






   :salute


Was a nice run while it lasted  :bhead
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Offline SPKmes

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2011, 04:53:35 PM »


 children maintain a pretense of fantasy while still acting one out to the fullest.  I may be wrong

-Penguin

Nope ... looks like you have this one bang on

Offline Penguin

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2011, 05:20:14 PM »
i would have thought the last time you tried to argue with me taught you a lesson, but i suppose in the interim you have again filled your head with a false sense of intellectual superiority. your erroneous use of the term "ad hominem" illustrates just how much your head has been filled. i committed no fallacy in rejecting your arguments based on any irrelevant fact about you.

fact: you did not fully read the entire article before jumping to a completely erroneous conclusion. an attribute you are known for. the article was written by a journalist, not the researchers themselves. and, the journalist clearly cautions the reader about the conclusions of the study.

fact: you have neither the experience, education nor credentials to question the research of anyone with so much as an associates degree. just because someone in your family or your buddies pats you on the head and gives you a cookie everytime you say something semi intelligent does not make you an expert in any field.

fact: you did not read the actual research document before jumping to the conclusion that the research was flawed. your opinion was based solely on a quick perusal of what you considered key points in the article written by a journalist.

fact: there have been many studies of various sizes since the introduction of television and they have all had similar conclusions from the researchers. it just so happens this particular research was conducted on three separate groups of children of the same age from similar socio economic backgrounds in controlled settings, exactly as it should have been.

unfortunately for you, that phd puts her eons ahead of you in the field of psychology, especially child psychology. that is not a fallacy rejection of your argument based on irrelevant facts about you, it is simply fact.

Where did I attack those studies and their results?  You have confused my criticism of the study conducted by Dr. Christakis and the criticism of its results and that of other studies.  You have jumped to a conclusion that was unfortunately false.  Furthermore, your statement that the similar socioeconomic backgrounds was a correct method is utterly false.  The samples in a correctly executed clinical trial are randomized.  These were not randomized, therefore the study is compromised.  Also, you have still not answered my question about long-term testing.

The comment on my lack of education is psychology is pointless- I did not say that Lillard was right or wrong.  I said that besides her degree in the field, she has little else to offer in this debate.  Also, the principles of clinical testing can be known by anyone, be they psychologist, entomolgist, ichthyologist, botantist, or high school student.  I was referring to how her endorsement of the claim is frivolous; there was no mention of any other opinion by any other psychologist.  Her PhD. in psychology does not make her any more of an authority on the subject than any other PhD.  With so many PhD.'s out there, it would be foolish to argue that Lillard's opinion is in any way representative of them all.

Quote
in typical fashion you completely failed to comprehend something that is easily understood by anyone who took the time to actually read the entire passage.

How is this not a dismissal of my point based on the flawed assumption that I did not read the article because I am somehow intellectually inferior?

Where is my claim of intellectual superiority?  If anything, you have made one:

Quote
I would have thought the last time you tried to argue with me taught you a lesson


Thus far, you have falsely accused me of:

  • Claiming knowledge of psychology when I have not done anything more than pointed out the holes in a study, which is something that anyone could do
  • Not comprehending written information while completely misunderstanding my clearly worded point.
  • Making a claim of intellectual superiority while simultaneously making such a claim yourself.

Not only that, but you have dodged many of my questions as well:
  • What long-term effects were there?
  • Why were the groups not random?
  • Why would a well respected psychologist release such a flawed study?

Finally, using your insults and my young age you have cleverly constructed a strawman argument in which I am somehow incapable of understanding why small*, homogeneous** samples tested without a baseline***against which to judge them would compromise a scholarly study.

-Penguin

*With only sixty kids, one wildcard result can make an even split a statstically significant finding.
**Homogeneous samples make the study too specific, and leave those who did not fit the description without any ground to take action.
***With no baseline, the possibility that all the kids in both groups acted the way they did all the time.

EDIT: Spelling error
EDIT: I don't appreciate the insults.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 05:27:10 PM by Penguin »

Offline curry1

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2011, 05:26:57 PM »
What kind of physician would release such inconclusive and misleading results?  This is a perversion of clinical medicine and academic rigor.  The study had a small and homogeneous sample size, and the test subjects were unlikely to encounter the stimulus in daily life.  Furthermore, the subjects were not tested before exposure to the stimulus, which means that there is no baseline against which to judge them.  There was also no testing of effects lasting longer than a few minutes, making it difficult if not impossible to take any long-term action on this data.

I can't find anything about Dr. Christakis on the web besides his involvement with this issue.  No curriculum vitae* (CV), no prior works, only a passing mention on the first hit of a search for his curriculum vitae on the CV of another man, Dr. Zimmern, who has connection to neither science nor medicine**.  This research, however, is central to his (possibly current, there is no indication of a previous) idea of there being "good" and "bad" stimuli during early language development.  His interests are clearly vested in the success and publication of this study.

In conclusion, though this man is not a quack, his methodolgy is poor and his claims poorly substantiated.  The study is inconclusive at best and misleading at worst.  This will play out over a long period of time, and there is much testing left to be done (and hopefully in a more rigorous way).  It is too early to judge whether he is right or not, but he has a good incentive to be right.  
 
-Penguin

*The only information on his education are a medical doctorate and masters of public health.  He is also a Professor of Pediatrics, and a research affiliate in the Center on Human Development and Disability

**Dr. Zimmern is an economist with the education of: University of Notre Dame. B.A. Economics 1985
University of Wisconsin, Madison. M.S. Economics 1989
University of Wisconsin. Ph.D. Economics 1994

I can't find anything about you on the internet and you aren't a professor or even have a high school diploma why should I listen to you?
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Offline Denholm

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2011, 07:06:51 PM »
...EDIT: I don't appreciate the insults.

And yet you feel obligated to insult the knowledge of these researchers?
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Offline Jayhawk

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2011, 07:22:24 PM »
Small studies like this are done constantly.  Every once in a while a news organization catches something they think is interesting and writes a story on it.  The problem usually comes when a journalism major is interpreting a psychology or science major's work.  Usually there are 99 articles simply copied off another articles information.  The researcher in question was just doing a small study that mimics many other previous research studies.  This was not her/his life's work, this was not meant to be any big news, the media made a big deal out of nothing.

And although Penguin's points are mostly valid in his post, he continuously tries to portray himself as an intellectual far beyond his years. Unfortunately for him, the intelligence he does posses often comes off as condescending and elitist.  
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 07:36:41 PM by Jayhawk »
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2011, 07:31:12 PM »
I've promised myself that I wouldn't get flammed by Skuzzy for politic'n until Christmas....

Gotta bite my tongue on this one!

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Offline Penguin

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2011, 08:04:35 PM »
Small studies like this are done constantly.  Every once in a while a news organization catches something they think is interesting and writes a story on it.  The problem usually comes when a journalism major is interpreting a psychology or science major's work.  Usually there are 99 articles simply copied off another articles information.  The researcher in question was just doing a small study that mimics many other previous research studies.  This was not her/his life's work, this was not meant to be any big news, the media made a big deal out of nothing.

And although Penguin's points are mostly valid in his post, he continuously tries to portray himself as an intellectual far beyond his years. Unfortunately for him, the intelligence he does posses often comes off as condescending and elitist.  

That was a sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind- that a journalist mistook a small-time study that the scientists thereof didn't keep quiet enough about and made it into a big hoopla. On condescencion: if you refer to my use of words such as therefore, furthermore, etc., I wouldn't use them lest you think me stupid.  Is there a happy medium?

-Penguin

Offline 2ADoc

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Re: spongebob makes kids stupid.
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2011, 08:15:45 PM »
Damn Penguin, that is the most I have ever heard come out of a pilots mouth, or typed, by a pilot that had no references to naked girls, climb rate, RPM, or beer and whiskey. 
 :bolt:

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