Air Shows and danger.

[Wiley]

nascar, nasplane whats the diff?  Can those things bank to the right?   

  Double the speed and the addition of the third dimension has a pretty significant impact on the mortality rate.

What's the over/under on how many lawsuits this will cause?  I hope the number is 0, but I have my doubts.

As to the news getting technical stuff wrong, nothing surprises me anymore.  I'm surprised people even watch them considering the gross inaccuracies that occur daily.

Wiley.

[dedalos]

Double the speed and the addition of the third dimension has a pretty significant impact on the mortality rate.

What's the over/under on how many lawsuits this will cause?  I hope the number is 0, but I have my doubts.

As to the news getting technical stuff wrong, nothing surprises me anymore.  I'm surprised people even watch them considering the gross inaccuracies that occur daily.

Wiley.

  the nascar comment was a joke.  As far as law suits, people need to learn that they are responsible for them selfs.  Unless that plane was deliberately aimed at them with intent to harm (and it was not), there should not be grounds for any law suit.  There is an inherent danger with everything we do every day.  Every one attending should have known that.  But in this country, lawyers will be calling people that were not even there offering to sue instead of the people looking for lawyers.  The spectators chose to take a risk - no matter how small - and I am pretty sure the pilot was not out to hurt anyone.

[Wiley]

the nascar comment was a joke.

Ah.  Disregard then.  My sarcasmometer is finicky some days.

As far as law suits, people need to learn that they are responsible for them selfs.

They do need to learn that.  I wonder if we'll ever get there...  I hope I'm wrong and there are really none.

Wiley.

[dedalos]

Ah.  Disregard then.  My sarcasmometer is finicky some days.

They do need to learn that.  I wonder if we'll ever get there...  I hope I'm wrong and there are really none.

Wiley.

Nah, we already know, but when people get a bunch of phone calls explaining to them how they are entitled to compensation, they decide that they actually do.  Why not if a lawyer is telling you are entitled to it?  So, I am pretty sure there will be plenty and the real cost will be that the races may not happen anymore or will be modified, until the next accident.

[Wiley]

Why not if a lawyer is telling you are entitled to it?

People are ultimately responsible for their actions.  Just because someone says you're entitled to it doesn't make it the right thing to do.  Unfortunately that attitude is less than prevalent these days.

Wiley.

[2ADoc]

I have been around air shows all my life, literally.  My folks crewed on Scatterbrain kid, and with White lightening, when I was in a stroller.  I ran an oil crew for the CAF when they were out of Harlingen, before I had a drivers license.  The airport my folks owned hosted many fly-ins, I have crewed on response teams at air shows, and i was on the D.A.R.T when I was in Iraq.  I have been to hundreds of air shows.  I have flown in dozens of them before my dad crashed, and that broke our plane set and team up.  I have seen many aircraft crashes, and only 5 of them had anything to do with an airshow.  Air shows are as safe as we can make them.  The pilots don't just go jump in a bird and go fly, there are safety briefings, oh god the safety briefings, the FAA is ALWAYS there, with their little ramp check sheets, and god forbid you miss something on a ramp check.  I am sure it is even more restrictive for the pilots at air races, I am sure that there are more rules, and guidelines involved, and I really don't even want to think about the safety briefings.  But accidents do happen, airplanes break, there are set crowd lines that you do not cross, I am sure that they are there at races.  When Frank and Amanda crashed, due to a catastrophic engine failure he turned away from the crowd and put the Waco in the trees.  Air shows are safe, they are fun, and they encourage young people to get involved with aviation.  I just wish they were not so expensive.

[BERN1]

in the mid 70's my dad was an R/C enthusiest we went to all the shows
1976 we went to the AMA nationals {American Model Association}at wright pattison airfield.the pylon races were cool but they often got together and crashed sometimes on the tarmac but one in particular lost control and went down in a parking lot between two cars,everyone talked about how it was a good thing the AMA makes everyone carry insurance,no one even mentioned that if one of those lil balsa wood planes went into the crowd that someone would get hurt.the following year we were in toledo at an RC trade show and a helicopter demo was going on,RC helicopters were new and we went to watch. as the pilot hovered a strong wind kicked up off the river and turned the aircraft on its side,my Dad grabbed and threw me under the car behind us and the helicopter crashed right in front of where we were standing, it scared the hell out of him and he talked the whole way back about how dumb it had been to try and fly in that wind.I will never forget that day and yet I take my son to the airshows and we enjoy every minute I still try to kep a watchful eye on the aircraft that are flying.I hope this accident doesnt ruin airshows in the future

[dedalos]

People are ultimately responsible for their actions.  Just because someone says you're entitled to it doesn't make it the right thing to do.  Unfortunately that attitude is less than prevalent these days.

Wiley.

I am just saying that people can be easily convinced by a lawyer to sue.  They probably would have never done it if it was not for a lawyer talking them into it.  After all, that someone talking to them is someone that knows the law, and if the law says one is entitled to compensation, why argue with the law?  In my opinion, the lawyers need to be controlled somehow.  A law forbidding them from contacting you about anything unless you contact them first would be nice.  Late nigh TV is full of advertisements on how you may be entitled to compensation.

[oboe]

It was worse than that... Megan Kelly had a reporter who stated that (paraphrasing), "these are greatly modified aircraft, that are much faster than the P-51 of WWII, which could not do anything near 400 mph."

I wrote the following email to Kelly:

I just heard a reporter state that the WWII era P-51 Mustang could not get anywhere near 400 mph... This is not only incorrect, but belies the lack of any attempt to learn even a little about the subject. This reporter probably has internet access, and therefore he could simply Google "P-51 Mustang".

The facts are these...

The P-51B of 1943 vintage was capable of speeds in excess of 440 mph at 27,000 feet.

The P-51D of 1944 vintage was capable of at least 437 mph at 25,000 feet.

The P-51H of 1945 vintage was capable of approximately 487 mph at 25,000 feet.

Leeward was flying a modified P-51D.

Please, ask these folks to do some research (the hallmark of good journalism) before going on the air... If they can't get something like this right, with ample sources at their fingertips, what else are they making errors with?

Just wondering, maybe that statement about a WWII P-51 not reaching 400mph is correct if you are talking about race altitude - looks to me like they don't get more the 500' off the ground?

One of our TV news anchors here kept referring to it as a "P-41".   

[Widewing]

Just wondering, maybe that statement about a WWII P-51 not reaching 400mph is correct if you are talking about race altitude - looks to me like they don't get more the 500' off the ground?

One of our TV news anchors here kept referring to it as a "P-41".   

Naw, within the context of what the reporter was talking about, it was obvious that he was clueless about the topic. My wife's cat knows more about cold fusion than this knucklehead did about aircraft.

Besides, you can dive a P-51 to Mach .75 skimming the tree tops.

[HB555]

An accident at a race car event 99% of the time results in the driver getting out and waiving to the crowd.

An accident at an airshow 99% of the time results in death.. The two cannot be compared to any degree, and thinking people were at the air races hoping for an accident is just plain sick..

Many times there are accidents, hard landings and even crash landings here in Reno, from which the pilot walks away, but the media never reports the news that a race pilot walked away from a possible deadly crash.

[xNOVAx]

Many times there are accidents, hard landings and even crash landings here in Reno, from which the pilot walks away, but the media never reports the news that a race pilot walked away from a possible deadly crash.

Yeah I'm aware of that.. There was a Questair Venture that put it in the dirt on Wednesday where the pilot walked away, but I was just trying to make a point.. Airshow accidents are MUCH more serious and deadly than auto racing.. Cars are designed to withstand a crash, aircraft are not..

[HB555]

Just wondering, maybe that statement about a WWII P-51 not reaching 400mph is correct if you are talking about race altitude - looks to me like they don't get more the 500' off the ground?

One of our TV news anchors here kept referring to it as a "P-41".   

Well, when they take off and circle to get their line abreast formation for the start of the race they do have lots of altitude. When the pace plane pilot tells them, Gentlemen, you have a race", he pulls up, they dive down, and for the most part are 50 to 100 feet AGL for the remainder of the race.

A local reporter asked the race director a couple of great questions, and was very serious about it... "Was this a new plane", then "How long had the pilot been flying this stunt plane?"
Answer to question 1, "Mame, this plane was originally built during, or just after, WWII, which ended in 1945. It has been rebuilt and modified many times since then.
Answer to  question 2, "Mame, this was not a stunt plane. This was a highly modified WWII Fighter that had been turned into a race aircraft. Please, no more questions.
Anyone else have a question I can answer that is relevant and will not make you look foolish? (End of questions!!)

[HB555]

Yeah I'm aware of that.. There was a Questair Venture that put it in the dirt on Wednesday where the pilot walked away, but I was just trying to make a point.. Airshow accidents are MUCH more serious and deadly than auto racing.. Cars are designed to withstand a crash, aircraft are not..

NOVA, If the races continue, it would be my pleasure to hook up with you out there next year.

[xNOVAx]

NOVA, If the races continue, it would be my pleasure to hook up with you out there next year.

Hey HB, that would be great. Let's plan on it