F-35

[Nypsy]

The first part of a 4 part series.  An opinion from someone who does not work for the govt. or a major contractor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=UQB4W8C0rZI

[Mar]

Good link, but...

will it blend?

[mensa180]

Paging eagl?

[Plazus]

I watched four of the parts on Youtube last night. I'm not sure whether I should call BS on the statements made in the videos, or rage over the failure of the project. I do feel, however, that we should've made three or four specialized airplanes rather than trying to fit every role into one plane. Could have saved a lot of money.

[Seanaldinho]

Well weve got 4 of them down at Eglin now flight training for the fresh 2nds starts very soon so we shall see...

[eagl]

Paging eagl?

Not really caring about F-35.  Not only is it just a front-aspect stealthy viper, the program overall is running far over projected cost, the US budget problems are driving down procurement numbers which makes them even more expensive, so to save money we're looking at cutting one of the models which will cause some partner nations to leave the program entirely which will drive the cost up even more.  In the end we'll end up with a front-aspect stealthy viper that costs 3-4 times what a viper costs, the same or somewhat more than what an F-22 costs, and nearly double what the "silent eagle" would cost.  And it can only carry 4 or 6 missiles.

Yea it'll have gucci avionics and information management, but they could have put most of that stuff into an F-18 or F-15 refresh and gotten twice the airplane for half the cost.  Yea those alternatives aren't stealthy but as we already found out with the B-2 and F-22, maybe we can't afford a lot of stealthy manned fighters.  We sure as heck could buy a ton of silent eagles and upgraded super hornets (with the AESA radar and 20% thrust improved engines) for the cost of the F-35 program, and after many theorists are going to say that after day 3 you don't need stealth anyhow, so we've traded airframe numbers and overall combat capability for front-aspect stealth and a big touchscreen panel in the cockpit.

There is more to it than that of course, but frankly I'm not a believer in either the F-35 or the belief that UAVs are the future.  The F-35 might make a great wild weasel and UAVs are awesome in low-threat environments where persistance is absolutely critical, but both systems also have some pretty harsh limitations in real life that make them practically one-trick ponies.  That's pretty much the opposite of how the F-15 evolved into becoming the jack of all trades, and since I'm a born-again strike eagle HUD baby I'm admittedly biased towards the more robust airframe of the F-15 and it's cousin the F-18.

Plus viper drivers are f**s.

[Seanaldinho]

Ive got to agree with you on UAV's not only because I want to fly IN a plane not in a cubicle. But also because in a combat situation the human element can very well be the deciding factor and I like to think our pilots are well trained.

I think the F-35 will have that scare factor where if we advertise it enough  it should never need to fire a rocket. Or they could call our "bluff" (since even we dont know how it will perform yet truly) and see how it goes....

[Plazus]

I guarantee that if another major war breaks out, we could see a huge increase in competition in aircraft technology. The problem is that there isn't really much competition, therefore we can only really guess as to what the future of aerial combat will look like. I have a hunch we will see something like how WW1 started when they had all this new technology but little experience/tactics on how to harness it (except that in the future, it will be in the air).

[Dichotomy]

Hey Eagl.. what's your take on the 16?  I used to help build them so I have a soft spot for them.  I'd like an honest opinion from somebody I know and respect. 

[FYB]

In all honesty, manned aircraft are becoming Obsolete; it's no longer how fast, and hard a jet can turn if the pilot can't handle it. An unmanned F-15 could probably down a manned F-35.

Stealth -Having or providing the ability to prevent detection. <<< They're just kicking a dead idea until it poops a new one.

Truth is... You're still on radar. It costs less to protect against these "stealth" aircraft then it does to manufacture them.

[F22RaptorDude]

F35 can kiss my ***

[RTR]

I agree with ya eagl.

I spent 11 years with the Hornet and had a lot of exposure time to the Eagle as well (through NATO etc) and I am pretty sure that the F35 is nowhere near the airplane either of those are.

It's all gadgets and long range targeting. It will never be a fighter. It just won't turn with Eagles, Hornets and Vipers (and as far as I am concerned the Viper was pretty much a throw away airplane anyway).

It is able to gather a whole pile of information and sort it all out, but it isn't capable of really dealing with the result of all that info. The Eagle and Hornet could.

Just the opinion of an old and grizzled retired RCAF  member.

cheers,
RTR

[mthrockmor]

Skuzzy, I'm not being partisan so...

During the 1980's with the Reagan buildup there was so much money pumped into defense corruption was rampant. Since it is defense it was almost treason to point it out. Famously, $75 hammers or $900 coffee pots.

Both the F-22 and the F-35 were born during a time when the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact had 15,000+ combat aircraft poised to stream across West Germany's eastern border. I dare a majority of the players on this game were not even alive when West Germany was a country. The Cold War ends, Soviet Union dissolves, 15,000+ planes shrinks to less then 2,000 yet the F-22 and F-35 programs continued full steam ahead.

As these programs went down the road more and more was pumped into them. They failed to hit program targets, gates, deadlines and audits yet the money continued to flow. If we were serious about air superiority or close air support they would have put into production the F-15SE for air superiority and advanced models of the F-16 to own that role for two decades.

Right now America faces the greatest threat in our history, and it relates to financial insolvency and loss/adjustment of the dollar as world reserve currency. As we face this we daily take into consideration our excesses. For me the F-22 and F-35 will always represent our failure.

Boo

[-tronski-]

I've always thought the RAAF procurement of the F-35 was a mistake. We should've kept our F-111G's and gone for a then F-15K/SG instead of our F-18A/B HUG's, and wasting the money on interim F-18F's.
Considering if there is a local fight, our smallish tanker force is no way going to be able to give us the range and bomb load a mix of F-111's, and F-15's could've bought us. 
I am yet to see anything that says a F-35 is the same bomb truck and or gunfighter as an F-15

 Tronsky

[Penguin]

I have two questions:

1.) Who needs stealth if your enemy doesn't have radar?
2.) In addition, it seems that those enemies that have radar also have nuclear weapons, thereby making conventional war (or any war for that matter) impossible.

Perhaps I am wrong, but at 3:00 AM, fact and fiction blur into one.

-Penguin