Making the Case: PBY Catalina

[Sikboy]

I can’t really make the case for the Cat for inclusion in the program as it stands. It wouldn’t just be a hangar queen in the MA, I don’t think it will see much scenario use either.

The only evidence of scenario desirability is anecdotal, but I think it’s worth something. Back in the day, I headed up a Scout Bomber unit in a Midway scenario. I was excited, because I knew that the ability to find and track the fleet was going to be paramount to any success we would have. Unfortunately, I was unable to pass this excitement onto my squad mates. The squad was made up of maybe 3 signed up and assigned pilots (who knew what they were in for) and the remainder were walk ons. Everyone, including the pre-registered players spent the entire frame complaining about the fact that we weren’t “doing anything” we were just flying around investigating grid spots looking for the fleet. I’m not sure what they were expecting, but I suppose it was “more bomber, less scout.” I’m just not convinced that there’s enough demand out there for MARPAT in scenarios to justify the Catalina.

If a functionality could be added that would reward flying around looking for stuff, then maybe there would be a world of floatplanes and seaplanes opened up. But I really don’t see how it could work.
 
-Sik

[Karnak]

For the MA purposes, the H8K2 is clearly the way to go for flying boats as it actually has heavy bomber level performance.

[Ack-Ack]

The only way the PBY would be a viable aircraft in AH would be if we were to finally get a real night time modeled and use it as a night time intruder aircraft.

ack-ack

[skorpion]

The only way the PBY would be a viable aircraft in AH would be if we were to finally get a real night time modeled and use it as a night time intruder aircraft.

ack-ack

what would be the difference between using it during the day or night? IIRC the brits used their lancasters at night mostly but we still use it during the day in game.

[Ack-Ack]

what would be the difference between using it during the day or night? IIRC the brits used their lancasters at night mostly but we still use it during the day in game.

Because in the day time the PBY was slaughtered when it attacked shipping, that's why the vast majority of intruder and anti-shipping missions were flown at night by the PBY's.  It was too slow and cumbersome to avoid the defensive AAA and would be picked out of the sky way before they got within range to drop their bombs or torpedoes.


ack-ack

[tmetal]

The only way the PBY would be a viable aircraft in AH would be if we were to finally get a real night time modeled and use it as a night time intruder aircraft.

ack-ack

rescue of downed pilots could be another way to make the PBY a useful additon; but this would also require more effort from HTC to implement than just bringing back the night. (not to mention the massive change in player mentality needed to make pilot rescue a viable game mechanic) Just wanted to throw in another way seaplanes might be of use, even if it isn't a realistic one right now.

[gyrene81]

i'm surprised tmetal, seriously anyone who brings up the idea of pilot rescue has no idea how long it would actually take and hasn't thought about all the conditions that would make most attempts fruitless. consider the amount of time it takes to get gv supplies when they are needed.

[skorpion]

Because in the day time the PBY was slaughtered when it attacked shipping, that's why the vast majority of intruder and anti-shipping missions were flown at night by the PBY's.  It was too slow and cumbersome to avoid the defensive AAA and would be picked out of the sky way before they got within range to drop their bombs or torpedoes.


ack-ack

so just because it got its butt handed to it on a golden platter during the day means it cant be added because of that? kind of like saying the B17 shouldnt be in here because it was slaughtered by the luftwaffe during the day without escorts early on.

[tmetal]

i'm surprised tmetal, seriously anyone who brings up the idea of pilot rescue has no idea how long it would actually take and hasn't thought about all the conditions that would make most attempts fruitless. consider the amount of time it takes to get gv supplies when they are needed.

don't be too surprised.  I am aware of the problems with the idea, and I kind of rolled all those into the admittedly vague disclaimer of "...massive change in player mentality needed to make pilot rescue a viable game mechanic". First among those problems is the investment in time and effort a player would have to make vs the possible risks and rewards just to retrieve some one who got shot down.  Most players right now wont even take the time to fly/drive out GV supps when some one requests them, so of course why would anybody expect players to do basically the same thing to rescue a downed pilot? Additionally, why would anybody expect a pilot to wait around on the ground in the hopes some one will land (most likely near enemy activity) and pick them up?

All that being said, I do bring GV supps to people who request it (even into/through enemy fire) and would enjoy the ability to stop and pick up a downed pilot, especially if it is a squad member.  Just because it wouldn't be a popularly used game feature doesn't mean that it doesn't warrent consideration and possibly eventual inclusion into AH; there are some parts of this game that are not used very often (aircraft re-arm for example) but are still included in game. 

It might not be an idea you like or agree with, but it is one I like and have thought about quite a bit. What surprises me is the part of your post I highlighted in bold; normally you don't make such generalized and ignorant posts. You had no idea if I had thought about this or not, but I figure with the general quality of internet posts these days it is a natural conclusion to jump to.  I saw no reason not to mention it on this thread because it is one of the tasks performed by PBYs during the war and it is also about as likely to be included in the game by HTC any time soon as any float plane or bringing back the night in the game.

[Ardy123]

Only if I can put out fires with my pby....


oh look, the vh is burning...
... np Smokey the cartoon pilot-bear will put that out for ya...

[Karnak]

so just because it got its butt handed to it on a golden platter during the day means it cant be added because of that? kind of like saying the B17 shouldnt be in here because it was slaughtered by the luftwaffe during the day without escorts early on.

That is not what he is saying.  He was using the historical outcomes of such use to demonstrate what would happen in AH.

The PBY would, despite being a very neat and important aircraft historically, be a waste pf development resources as compared to a significant number of other aircraft that are missing from the game.

Just wishing for things willy nilly is stupid.  Think if terms of limited development resources and what the best application of those resources might be.  The PBY is far down the list.

FWIW, the PBY-5 is one of my favorite aircraft from WWII.  It is just a gorgeous flying boat.

[Ardy123]

That is not what he is saying.  He was using the historical outcomes of such use to demonstrate what would happen in AH.

The PBY would, despite being a very neat and important aircraft historically, be a waste pf development resources as compared to a significant number of other aircraft that are missing from the game.

Just wishing for things willy nilly is stupid.  Think if terms of limited development resources and what the best application of those resources might be.  The PBY is far down the list.

FWIW, the PBY-5 is one of my favorite aircraft from WWII.  It is just a gorgeous flying boat.

Its a great plane, but quite useless in the AH world.

[skorpion]

That is not what he is saying.  He was using the historical outcomes of such use to demonstrate what would happen in AH.

The PBY would, despite being a very neat and important aircraft historically, be a waste pf development resources as compared to a significant number of other aircraft that are missing from the game.

Just wishing for things willy nilly is stupid.  Think if terms of limited development resources and what the best application of those resources might be.  The PBY is far down the list.

FWIW, the PBY-5 is one of my favorite aircraft from WWII.  It is just a gorgeous flying boat.

why shouldnt we add it? just because it got massacred in the day doesnt mean it will in AH. basically anything lighter than a B-17 gets massacred daily (EX: JU-88's) in game. but yet we have it. if it got its butt spanked in the day that means it didnt meet requirements to make it in game?

[Karnak]

I enjoin you to consider this line:

Just wishing for things willy nilly is stupid.  Think if terms of limited development resources and what the best application of those resources might be.

[icepac]

Enable it at ports.