Wild Card Wednesday!

[Tec]

So I saw the DH rule walking down the street the other day.  Richard Simmons rolled by on his Vespa and called it a queer.

[Saxman]

How does a DH "ruin baseball"?  Most pitchers don't hit in college, or the minor leagues for that matter until double a and triple a.  It's usually just a free out at the end of the lineup, save the occasional bunts and hits.  I don't see how having that is good for baseball.  The football analogical equivalent would be forcing the kicker to play defense for a set of downs after he kicks off.

One reason is that it takes the strategy out of the 9th spot in the order:

It's the bottom of the 8th, 0-0. You have a runner on third with two outs. Your starting pitcher stands in. Do you pull a starting pitcher flirting with a shutout to put in a pinch-hitter to go for that potential game-winning run? Or do you let your pitcher swing away and take a chance? What do you do, Jack? What do you do?

The DH was ENTIRELY a marketing ploy in the 70s to generate more revenue at games by inflating the offense. It was one of THE major contributors to the Steroid Era and led to a proliferation of guys like David Ortiz whose ONLY contribution is being able to hit the ball far, but otherwise can't play the game worth a damn. Can you HONESTLY tell me a guy like that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth or Aaron, damn good hitters who actually played the WHOLE game?

Oh, and Ruth started his career as a pitcher. They put him in the field to get his bat in the lineup EVERY game, instead of every 4th or 5th. There's also plenty of hurlers in MLB today that can really swing a bat.

[Krupinski]

Hey, how 'bout them Phillies?

[Melvin]

So I saw the DH rule walking down the street the other day.  Richard Simmons rolled by on his Vespa and called it a queer.

I was going to respond to grizz, then this came up and said it all.

 

[Tec]

Hey, how 'bout them Phillies?

Cardinals are red hot, I wouldn't start counting my chickens just yet.

[Tec]

I was going to respond to grizz, then this came up and said it all.

 

Just poking fun at my homeslice.  But even though hes a dirty redbirds fan Saxman summed it up pretty well.

[Tordon22]

How does a DH "ruin baseball"?  Most pitchers don't hit in college, or the minor leagues for that matter until double a and triple a.  It's usually just a free out at the end of the lineup, save the occasional bunts and hits.  I don't see how having that is good for baseball.  The football analogical equivalent would be forcing the kicker to play defense for a set of downs after he kicks off.

Make them slews play offense, love watching this replay by my favorite player ever. RIP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mW3DrXsPg

[Melvin]

Just poking fun at my homeslice.  But even though hes a dirty redbirds fan Saxman summed it up pretty well.

Fine.

One reason is that it takes the strategy out of the 9th spot in the order:

It's the bottom of the 8th, 0-0. You have a runner on third with two outs. Your starting pitcher stands in. Do you pull a starting pitcher flirting with a shutout to put in a pinch-hitter to go for that potential game-winning run? Or do you let your pitcher swing away and take a chance? What do you do, Jack? What do you do?

The DH was ENTIRELY a marketing ploy in the 70s to generate more revenue at games by inflating the offense. It was one of THE major contributors to the Steroid Era and led to a proliferation of guys like David Ortiz whose ONLY contribution is being able to hit the ball far, but otherwise can't play the game worth a damn. Can you HONESTLY tell me a guy like that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth or Aaron, damn good hitters who actually played the WHOLE game?

Oh, and Ruth started his career as a pitcher. They put him in the field to get his bat in the lineup EVERY game, instead of every 4th or 5th. There's also plenty of hurlers in MLB today that can really swing a bat.

Not bad for a Card fan...


I'm still pulling for Philly at this point. (Again  )

[grizz441]

One reason is that it takes the strategy out of the 9th spot in the order:

It's the bottom of the 8th, 0-0. You have a runner on third with two outs. Your starting pitcher stands in. Do you pull a starting pitcher flirting with a shutout to put in a pinch-hitter to go for that potential game-winning run? Or do you let your pitcher swing away and take a chance? What do you do, Jack? What do you do?

The DH was ENTIRELY a marketing ploy in the 70s to generate more revenue at games by inflating the offense. It was one of THE major contributors to the Steroid Era and led to a proliferation of guys like David Ortiz whose ONLY contribution is being able to hit the ball far, but otherwise can't play the game worth a damn. Can you HONESTLY tell me a guy like that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth or Aaron, damn good hitters who actually played the WHOLE game?

Oh, and Ruth started his career as a pitcher. They put him in the field to get his bat in the lineup EVERY game, instead of every 4th or 5th. There's also plenty of hurlers in MLB today that can really swing a bat.

Valid points.  I don't agree though.  Pitchers hit batting practice maybe twice a week, position players hit every single day, sometimes twice a day.  All they do is hit, they've been doing it their entire career. It's their job.  Pitchers job is to pitch.  Entire workout routines, daily maintenance routines are based on what position you play.  Bullpens, arm maintenance, conditioning, long toss, is a pitchers regiment.  Pitchers in today's game aren't hitters.  Pitchers do not hit in the minor leagues below double A and only hit in Double A versus national league teams.  Most college pitchers do not hit in college.  The ones that do are very rare.  Name me 5 current pitchers that are good hitters.  Zambrano, Micah Owings, umm who else?  It's rare.

I don't think it's very interesting strategy that a manager has to decide whether to take a pitcher out who is throwing a gem because he doesn't know how to hit and stands no chance with crucial runs in scoring position.  In fact, it's kind of a stupid decision to have to make, like what would you rather do, eat a crap sandwich, or hang out with Tec for a weekend.  Just mind numbingly painful.

[Krupinski]

Valid points.  I don't agree though.  Pitchers hit batting practice maybe twice a week, position players hit every single day, sometimes twice a day.  All they do is hit, they've been doing it their entire career. It's their job.  Pitchers job is to pitch.  Entire workout routines, daily maintenance routines are based on what position you play.  Bullpens, arm maintenance, conditioning, long toss, is a pitchers regiment.  Pitchers in today's game aren't hitters.  Pitchers do not hit in the minor leagues below double A and only hit in Double A versus national league teams.  Most college pitchers do not hit in college.  The ones that do are very rare.  Name me 5 current pitchers that are good hitters.  Zambrano, Micah Owings, umm who else?  It's rare.

I don't think it's very interesting strategy that a manager has to decide whether to take a pitcher out who is throwing a gem because he doesn't know how to hit and stands no chance with crucial runs in scoring position.  In fact, it's kind of a stupid decision to have to make, like what would you rather do, eat a crap sandwich, or hang out with Tec for a weekend.  Just mind numbingly painful.

Cliff Lee. 

[grizz441]

Um, Cliff lee has a career .168 batting average with 2 walks and 53 strike outs.  He's having a career year this season, hitting .200.  He still only has drawn 1 walk and has 26 strikeouts.  Wow what an offensive stud Krup.  

[BiPoLaR]

Braves epic collapse as well.  Cardinals came back from the grave this past month to sneak in to the playoffs.

I dont want to hear it. =/
Everything ATL as far as sports right now is an epic fail.
Bulldogs, Braves and falcons.
Only team playing worth a crap is GT.

[Devil 505]

I dont want to hear it. =/
Everything ATL as far as sports right now is an epic fail.
Bulldogs, Braves and falcons.
Only team playing worth a crap is GT.

Who are the bulldogs?

[Saxman]

Um, Cliff lee has a career .168 batting average with 2 walks and 53 strike outs.  He's having a career year this season, hitting .200.  He still only has drawn 1 walk and has 26 strikeouts.  Wow what an offensive stud Krup.  

I can name three just from recent St. Louis history without even needing to think about it:

Jason Maquis - Lifetime .273
Jeff Suppan - Lifetime .285
Adam Wainright - Lifetime .244

All they do is hit, they've been doing it their entire career. It's their job.

Uh, yeah, it's also their job to be able to PLAY THEIR POSITION IN THE FIELD. Ozzie Smith wasn't nearly one of the best hitters in the history of the game at his position, but put together a list of the greatest shortstops of all time, and if he's not at the TOP of the list itself, he's damn well among the leaders because of what he did with his GLOVE. By contrast Mike Piazza was a HORRIBLE catcher. He was a great hitter, yes, but SO WHAT? He was an absolute liability behind the plate and quite frequently showed it, and that is NOT a position you want to sacrifice your defense (great catchers win more games with their glove than they EVER do with their bats).

So what the hell, why not go the football route and have completely separate offensive and defensive lines! Stack whole teams full of Bondses, Cansecos and Ortizes. Baseball is all about the home run ball, right? Because that's the ONLY reason the DH was ever brought in in the first place: to promote a single aspect of the game at the expense of others (and for those of you who think the DH makes AL teams automatically superior, I once did a World Series win  calculation of the periods prior to and after the DH was introduced. IT DID NOT CHANGE. The AL won the same % of games AFTER the DH as they did BEFORE it. Tim McCarver needs to remember that fact before the next time he starts humping the AL's leg over it). Any time you see a team sacrifice defense for power, more often than not they pay a stiff price for it with plays not being made, and runs being given up that can make all the difference in the world (that's why it's almost always pitching and DEFENSE that decide playoff games).

What the DH gives you are players who only play HALF the game: Hitters who never have to take the field and couldn't play worth a damn even if they DID, and pitchers who never have to dig in. Even the BENCH guys who might get an At-Bat once a week have to be able to play both sides of the game, so why should pitchers be any different?

[Krupinski]

Um, Cliff lee has a career .168 batting average with 2 walks and 53 strike outs.  He's having a career year this season, hitting .200.  He still only has drawn 1 walk and has 26 strikeouts.  Wow what an offensive stud Krup.  

I tried.  

Oh, don't forget those two HRs.