FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE

[Debrody]

I'm not asking this rhetorically, but as a serious question.

What about that video indicates that the P47 is being flown to the edge of its flight envelope?

Wiley.

Im sure if your life depends on it, HECK, yes, you pull the stick as you can.
Otherwise, if AH is modelled totally accurate, that was a fight between an amazing low jug pilot vs an amazing ace 190 stick.

[Ardy123]

I'm not asking this rhetorically, but as a serious question.

What about that video indicates that the P47 is being flown to the edge of its flight envelope?

Wiley.

Does anyone know if that German company is still making replica Fw-190 A8s? I know a few people on the BBS and HiTech has flown the p51, I wonder if any have flown the A8 (even if its a replica).

[Wiley]

Im sure if your life depends on it, HECK, yes, you pull the stick as you can.
Otherwise, if AH is modelled totally accurate, that was a fight between an amazing low jug pilot vs an amazing ace 190 stick.

...Since when is pulling the stick the hardest you possibly can the best way to get the best performance out of your plane?  What were their speeds during this altercation?

I've seen people throw around the idea there's an 800 or 900 pound discrepancy with the A8.  Gyrene's numbers from the operating handbook posted looks to be about 25 pounds off what's in the game.

Can someone point me at the thread on the BBS that outlines the issue with the A8 in concrete terms (and by that I don't mean 'this anecdote talks about a guy outturning a P47/P51/whatever) and illustrates where and by how much the AH modeling is off?  I've been searching for it every now and again for a while, and haven't been able to turn up anything other than 'they used the wrong documentation.'  But I've never seen the 'right' documentation shown.

Wiley.

[nrshida]

The Ki-84 is another that probably isn't modeled right,

How so?

I just want more, I suppose, more of everything. Good planes all around. I especially want to see the Ki-84-Ic. Who can resist 2x30mm and 1x45mm for killing b29's?

It is generally accepted that the one you refer to as the Ic, the Ki-84 Hei, was only ever armed with a single Ho-115 30-mm in the right wing and nothing in the left but since the weapon was experimental it may have often flown with the weapon removed altogether & the total number of this type might number as few as 3 units.

[Debrody]

Wiley, both of those planes were turning near the envelope. Could you see the jugs flaps coming out? I couldnt. It was a downhill, so the 190 couldnt open them either.
Without flaps, the jug wins, bit only with a very small difference. But that poor pilot wasnt trained well enough to use his flaps in the downhill sustained turn, yet the 190 pilot was able to keep up with him and score the victory.

[Wiley]

Wiley, both of those planes were turning near the envelope.

Again, based on what?  The fact that it was life or death?  Who maintains a constant rate flat turn by choice with something creeping onto their tail?

Could you see the jugs flaps coming out? I couldnt. It was a downhill, so the 190 couldnt open them either.
Without flaps, the jug wins, bit only with a very small difference. But that poor pilot wasnt trained well enough to use his flaps in the downhill sustained turn, yet the 190 pilot was able to keep up with him and score the victory.

I'd expect the planes were traveling at a speed that favored the 190 by the look of that footage.  I also don't believe flaps usage in combat was even close to being as widespread in real life as it is in AH.  From that footage, I don't believe we could say one way or another if he had a notch of flaps in.

I just don't think a few seconds of video out of context with no info about alt, speed, plane condition or pilot has much meaning when it comes to comparing flight models.

Wiley.

[RTHolmes]

arguing for flight model changes based on a few seconds of guncam footage ...

[Debrody]

Again, based on what?  The fact that it was life or death?  Who maintains a constant rate flat turn by choice with something creeping onto their tail?

I'd expect the planes were traveling at a speed that favored the 190 by the look of that footage.  I also don't believe flaps usage in combat was even close to being as widespread in real life as it is in AH.  From that footage, I don't believe we could say one way or another if he had a notch of flaps in.

I just don't think a few seconds of video out of context with no info about alt, speed, plane condition or pilot has much meaning when it comes to comparing flight models.

Wiley.

Dont you get it?
-Flaps WERENT used in that fight.
-in my sustained testes, the jug was beating the 190a8, but only with a small difference
-according to doc gonzo's site, they have a comparable turn radius without flaps
-in a sustained turnfight, its easy: pull the stick as you can. The differences become very small between the pilots.
-in that film, the 190 very slowly, but could get inside of the jug
Whats the conclusion?? If AH is modelling theese planes correctly, that was a poor jug pilot compared to the 190 one. Ergo im not arguing about anything, its you fighting left n right. I never said anything about the flight modelling... i cant get your point

[RTHolmes]

I cant quite make out the fuel gauge readings of both aircraft from that guncam. must just be my eyesight  

[Wiley]

Dont you get it?
-Flaps WERENT used in that fight.
-in my sustained testes, the jug was beating the 190a8, but only with a small difference
-according to doc gonzo's site, they have a comparable turn radius without flaps
-in a sustained turnfight, its easy: pull the stick as you can. The differences become very small between the pilots.
-in that film, the 190 very slowly, but could get inside of the jug
Whats the conclusion?? If AH is modelling theese planes correctly, that was a poor jug pilot compared to the 190 one. Ergo im not arguing about anything, its you fighting left n right. I never said anything about the flight modelling... i cant get your point

The flight modeling comment was directed mainly at 4brkfast's attempt at a point, that due to this video AH has modeling issues with the 190.  Sorry, I misread your tone and thought you were saying sarcastically that the P47 pilot must be a complete chucklehead.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I agree with your flow of logic above.

I'm not fighting per se, more trying to get something concrete out of the people that say something's wrong.  If something's wrong, it should be easy to define what it is, shouldn't it?

Wiley.

[Ardy123]

I cant quite make out the fuel gauge readings of both aircraft from that guncam. must just be my eyesight  

maybe this guy was flying the jug, he'd alone would account for the increased radius.

[Wiley]

maybe this guy was flying the jug, he'd alone would account for the increased radius.


(Image removed from quote.)

Hey!  Lay off Porkins.  He had a condition, and it killed him.  If it wasn't for the extra weight he'dve been able to outaccelerate those TIE fighters.

Wiley.

[RTHolmes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGr7lXlyK3Y


edit: and RIP Porkins!

[Ardy123]

He had a condition, and it killed him.

an atomic fart?

Hungeritus is a b**ch to kick, I kept trying to keep him from making mid-night runs to the intergalactic flythrough McDs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHlp2vMyknQ&feature=related

[Wiley]

Hungeritus is a b**ch to kick, I kept trying to keep him from making mid-night runs to the intergalactic flythrough McDs.

Oh sure... Make light of it...  The fact is, the poor guy had been anorexic for years, and by the time of the Death Star run he'd beaten it thoroughly.

Wiley.