Author Topic: GIS/GPS in the Military  (Read 833 times)

Offline shotgunneeley

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GIS/GPS in the Military
« on: October 17, 2011, 10:34:22 PM »
I'm currently a senior in college majoring in Forestry and minoring in GIS (Geographic Information System). I'm really interested in serving in the military after I graduate in May and I'm thinking the best thing to do with my background would be to work with electronics, particularly GPS and satellite imaging. Air Force would be the logical choice since they are the primary operators of GPS and satellite vehicles, but I'm sure every branch has the need for this kind of work. I'm open to go anywhere this particular skill is needed, but I'd rather not be stuck behind a computer indoors (I do understand the need for it, though). Anybody here have any experience with this particular field of the military?
"Lord, let us feel pity for Private Jenkins, and sorrow for ourselves, and all the angel warriors that fall. Let us fear death, but let it not live within us. Protect us, O Lord, and be merciful unto us. Amen"-from FALLEN ANGELS by Walter Dean Myers

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Offline eagl

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 11:46:46 PM »
Space command in the USAF would be a logical place, except...  They do their work indoors in front of a computer.  A 50 billion dollar computer inside a trillion dollar hole in the ground, but it's still working on a computer indoors.

Go to a recruiter and see what they have to say.  Don't pay any attention to the enlisted career fields since your degree is already almost done, focus on where they can place you as an officer doing something you are interested in.  The military has WAAAAY too many things that suck about it, to be doing something you don't like.  But don't join up unless you really want to do it, because right now they're kicking out people who love their jobs and you probably shouldn't be taking a spot if your heart and soul isn't into it.
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Offline Stoney

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 01:55:22 AM »
Try artillery...  Lots of surveying and all the assorted math, etc...  Plus, its outdoors, and you get to blow toejam up...  Marines or Army, take your choice...
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Offline rogwar

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 07:22:38 AM »
Hey are you at UAM?

Like said above Air Force would be good. Also look into the Navy and AF intel fields as well.

It would be a good idea to go talk to or talk on the phone with some officer recruiters. Tell them where your interests are and then go research the programs.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 07:25:58 AM by rogwar »

Offline shotgunneeley

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 10:19:50 AM »
Hey are you at UAM?

Yep, home of the "I'll show you f***ing stupid" Boll Weevils.

I'm not looking for a full career in the military; just plan on serving for an enlistment period applying what I know and learning new skills. I feel like it's something I should do because I deeply enjoy military history, particularly WW2. I believe it's an experience I don't want to miss out on because I love my country and hold in the highest respect those who have fought and died for her. I'll definitely talk to a recruiter for their opinions on where I should go, I just wanted to hear some non-biased advice from those who have already gone through it.
"Lord, let us feel pity for Private Jenkins, and sorrow for ourselves, and all the angel warriors that fall. Let us fear death, but let it not live within us. Protect us, O Lord, and be merciful unto us. Amen"-from FALLEN ANGELS by Walter Dean Myers

Game ID: ShtGn (Inactive), Squad: 91st BG

Offline Maverick

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 10:55:02 AM »
If you go into the military you should be aware that no matter what branch of service, they will place you where THEY think they need you not where you want to go. You lose the option of choice, especially when you enlist vs going Officer. If you go enlisted do not be real surprised if they plunk you down doing convoy ops in the 'Stan instead of using your shiny degree.

If you go Officer you will likely have a minimum 6 to 8 year commitment. Now that will include Reserve time as well so it is not necessarily all full time green machine. (or whatever flavor / color service you enter) You will have a far better chance of using the degree or skill you have than as enlisted.

If you serve, they (being the service) will tell you where, when and how to serve. If you know that ahead of time you won't be nearly as disappointed than if you listen to the recruiters claims about being in the Army with the condos. (That came from a goldy hawn movie, funny but had some truth to it.)
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Offline Fender16

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 10:58:47 AM »
Personally, I would recommend you do something far away from what you "know" in your civilian life. Had I enlisted to sit around and mess with computers all day, I would have gone crazy. Granted I know a good deal about them but the experience of doing this job in the military is completely different. Plus, a lot of that satellite mumbo jumbo is largely handled by civilians now.
So if you want to experience something that you'll never have the chance to do in the civilian life, go Infantry.
Then, once your 4 years are up, take that pretty GI Bill they give you and get more schooling. With a military background, lots of schooling, you will end up being one of those over paid civilian "experts" the military employs.

If you go into the military you should be aware that no matter what branch of service, they will place you where THEY think they need you not where you want to go. You lose the option of choice, especially when you enlist vs going Officer. If you go enlisted do not be real surprised if they plunk you down doing convoy ops in the 'Stan instead of using your shiny degree.

If you go Officer you will likely have a minimum 6 to 8 year commitment. Now that will include Reserve time as well so it is not necessarily all full time green machine. (or whatever flavor / color service you enter) You will have a far better chance of using the degree or skill you have than as enlisted.

If you serve, they (being the service) will tell you where, when and how to serve. If you know that ahead of time you won't be nearly as disappointed than if you listen to the recruiters claims about being in the Army with the condos. (That came from a goldy hawn movie, funny but had some truth to it.)

The Army lets you choose if you are qualified for the job you want and there is an opening for it. And don't become an "O"... no body likes O's  :bolt:

Offline rogwar

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2011, 11:12:08 AM »
Make sure you specifically go talk to an "officer" recruiter.

Offline Selino631

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2011, 11:23:14 AM »
yea im gonna agree with alot of the comments above that say Dont become a Butter bar. Commissioned Officers can be a pain in the ***. Im not too fond of them. Plus if u do, u'll likley do ur job for a little bit then u'll get stuck doing Staff Duty work for Battalion of Brigade. not fun stuff.

If you enlist, start off with the shortest enlistment contract. That way u can always re-enlist if u feel like it. its better to be on the safe side. There is a bunch of Intelligence jobs int he Army, and in some of them u get to Interrogate people to, that'd be fun.

Just, expect alot of bs. thats how the Military operates.

And about being tasked to do a diffrent job while deployed, Im pretty sure that u'll only do that if your current job is not needed. Like im deployed right now, and the 2-8 FA (Artillary) is doing PSD and ECP security. because since we r near a population center we dont need Howitzers. But if ur intel, im pretty sure u'll actually do ur job. it is possible u could be tasked to so ECP or convoys but i'd say unlikely for that job.
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Offline allaire

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2011, 01:35:24 PM »
The Army lets you choose if you are qualified for the job you want and there is an opening for it. And don't become an "O"... no body likes O's  :bolt:
The Army lets you choose a primary and secondary MOS.  If the primary is full you can get the secondary.  If it's full well better hope they don't need cooks or latrine scrubbers.  In my case both my primary and secondary choices were not needed at the time so I was giving the option of a third that was in the same MOS series but a completely different job from what I wanted.
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Offline Tac

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2011, 01:55:32 PM »
you can work for the military as a civilian. no need to sign yourself up to their whims. Better pay too.

...unless you're going for military/veteran benefits though.

Offline Stoney

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2011, 03:35:49 PM »
And don't become an "O"... no body likes O's  :bolt:

I was an "O"...  Bottom line is that if you want to stare at satellite photos all day, best to do that outside of the military.  Most of that stuff gets handled by either civilian agencies or higher headquarters.  What you get at the user level has already been processed by someone else.  And, don't just join to go into the "intelligence" field.  You get sent to an alpha unit, you're more likely to be processing security clearances and monitoring the CMS or CMCC vault.  It would take you a while to get to the upper level intelligence work, and even then, most of the time, you're simply compiling information that some other agency already processed.  When I was deployed with my MEUs, we did have topo guys that had software to make custom mapping products, but that was pretty niche stuff.  I had a friend that worked at CENTCOM G-2, and all he did was put PP presentations together using information provided (mostly) from civilian agencies.  He didn't actually do the analysis.

Perhaps there's an Agency recruiter that visits your campus each year?  I'd recommend that if you want to analysis--that job can vary from a desk job to other things that are very exotic...  If there's not a recruiter, you can check out their website--it has recruiting and position information on it.  Some of their most famous field officers sort of stumbled into the job, rather than having life-long ambitions for it...
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2011, 03:46:21 PM »
I'm currently a senior in college majoring in Forestry and minoring in GIS (Geographic Information System). I'm really interested in serving in the military after I graduate in May and I'm thinking the best thing to do with my background would be to work with electronics, particularly GPS and satellite imaging. Air Force would be the logical choice since they are the primary operators of GPS and satellite vehicles, but I'm sure every branch has the need for this kind of work. I'm open to go anywhere this particular skill is needed, but I'd rather not be stuck behind a computer indoors (I do understand the need for it, though). Anybody here have any experience with this particular field of the military?

 :uhoh  :confused: @ suggestions so far... really...  really guys?...


Navy Construction Battalion (SeaBees (C-Bs), might be interesting as they still deal with WWII sites and were founded during WWII) OR Army Core of Engineers, both would highly value and greatly utilise your GIS background.

http://www.seabee.navy.mil/

http://www.usace.army.mil/Pages/default.aspx

If you want to sign and join up for a few years, serve and maybe get outa the country, I'd go SeaBee myself.  But there are a lot more civilian opportunities with the ACE, so if that's your cup of tea and you're hoping to stay home and likely do things within our borders more often than not (but also likely a lot more desk time) then maybe they'd be the best to talk to.  Hit up the Navy and Army recruiters, they LOVE talking, especialy if you show a solid interest down a narrow carrer path that they can find a spot for you.

Make sure you specifically go talk to an "officer" recruiter.

This too, and make sure they're the best guy within driving distance to talk to about what you're specificaly interested in.



Edited for spelling - running on 2.5hrs sleep and 5 cups of coffee.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 03:49:10 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline eagl

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2011, 08:09:21 PM »
yea im gonna agree with alot of the comments above that say Dont become a Butter bar.

I hate to be blunt about it and I'll probably piss off some people, but here's the truth you may not hear anywhere else.

E:  You are told where to live, what to eat, when to eat, how to wash and fold your clothes, etc etc., for YEARS.
O:  Once you pin on your 1Lt bars, you follow the rules however you see fit, and either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences.

Pay:  An officer with 5 years in will make more base pay than a senior NCO with 16 years in.  By the time an officer starts thinking about whether to make it a career or not at the 14ish year point, the officer may be pulling in somewhere around 2x to 3x the pay of an enlisted soldier that has more time in service.

That career-minded officer is also looking at a promotion to O-4 which is both a hefty increase in pay as well as a huge increase in responsibility and authority.  If you want to raise a family, even a junior captain has an easier time of it financially than a master sergeant.  The bennies are simply better, in return for service filled with vague and conflicting expectations including the requirement that the officer figures out what needs doing without being told, and does it better than anyone else while making both his boss and subordinates look and feel good about it.  The expectations, authority, and responsibility start out high, so the compensation package is likewise high(er).  Whether you like this or not, it's how the military has been run for centuries and for very good reasons outlined by military geniuses dead hundreds or thousands of years ago.

On the other hand, I have heard MANY MANY enlisted soldiers comment that they simply worry less about random stupid crap than officers.  That is probably true, in my experience.  Still, I really like the rules I have lived under since my commissioning when compared to the rules even senior NCOs live under.  As long as I do my job, which has both very specific and very broad requirements, I pretty much set my own rules within a handful of guidelines set by my boss and the squadron commander.  Guess what - many of those rules the boss sets were suggested by me or people like me who hate stupid rules.  So even though I still work my 12 hr days like everyone else, I have a lot of flexibility on when and how I get the job done and that makes the job much more personally satisfying to me.

If you don't want the responsibility that gets dumped on officers but you still want an awesome career or job in the military, then please find any recruiter asap and sign up for whatever you are interested in.  There are tons of great enlisted jobs and people keep signing up, and the enlisted airmen and soldiers I work with are generally happy and highly motivated, so the life is good both ways.

Everyone has their own preferences, but given a chance to do it over again I'd still go back and suffer through 4 years at the Academy in order to get the career path I chose the first time.  No regrets here over my decision to go officer instead of enlisted.  When given the choice to be the guy who gets to decide which hill to attack in a suicidal infantry charge, or the poor guy waiting for the jerkwad idiot Lt to pick which hill we're all gonna die on today, I'd rather be the jerkwad Lt.  But that's just me.
 
Oh yea...  Just like a dumb officer who doesn't respect and care for his troops can kill unit morale and effectiveness, there are also few things as detrimental to unit cohesiveness as an NCO who is "too smart" and who uses that as an excuse to sidestep the chain of command.  Occasionally we get an over-educated NCO who doesn't have enough common sense to add a bit of real wisdom to their education, and they can really bring down a unit.  Many of these types would have made fine officers, but some are simply overeducated idiots.  My point being if you want to run things eventually instead of always being on the receiving end of the never-ending stream of poop that runs from top to bottom, and if you already have the degree required to be an officer, then you should seriously consider getting a commission as an officer instead of enlisting.  You and the people you work with will be happier if that's the case :)

Last word - we're hitting a phase of severe military cutbacks right now so if you don't want to be in the military for the job, then seriously don't sign up at all.  Lots of good people are getting kicked out and the system occasionally lets the jerks and slackers stay in while booting out people who would give anything to stay in.  It's going to be a rough decade ahead for the military, no question about it.  We're fighting 4 simultaneous wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and as of yesterday we're sending ground troops to some other African country), while being told we're going to have to do it with fewer people, will be spending less money on equipment, and oh by the way as soon as possible they're going to make the ENTIRE pay/benefits package cheaper which means pay rate freezes, less retirement pay, and fewer medical benefits that cost more out of pocket.  It's going to take a little bit more dedication I think, because the compensation for dedicating your life to serving your country is about to get a lot smaller, while the people cutting your pay still take their long vacations, bank their big paychecks, and get a full pension after serving just 4 years in DC.  Don't sign up if that's gonna get in the way of doing the job 'cause that's how it is.

Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Stoney

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Re: GIS/GPS in the Military
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2011, 02:44:00 AM »
Eagle, with respect, that's one of the worst synopses I've ever seen about the choice between enlisting or becoming an officer.  I know corporals that have tremendous amounts of responsibility.  That being said, you become an officer because you want the responsibility, the challenge, the burden of decision-making, and to be the example/mentor the enlisted people need, and not because the pay is better...  There were days when I felt I was overpaid, and days when I figured the American tax payer got a bargain.  All part of the life.

To the OP, make the choice you want, for the reasons you want.  If you want to only enlist, then just enlist and thrive doing so.  As an enlisted man, you will still have responsibility--on some days more than on others.  Last, there's a shooting war going on now, so make sure you've considered the ramifications of that.  Its a job where on any given day, you can be killed.  And, as sure as Christ made little apples, you'll find yourself in Afghanistan chasing insurgents or being shot at by them, regardless of your specialty or rank...
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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