Bf 110 vs P-38

[Tank-Ace]

Krusty, I'd have to disagree with you. The 110 picks up speed quickly in a dive, its just rather limited by its top end speed before compression and part shedding becomes an issue.

IMO, the most effective way to 'disengage' in a 110 1v1 is to dive untill you're JUST below your max dive speed, and then level off. Relative E-states remain the same, but you will likely have picked up some distance, probably enough to flip around and play the "if I'm going to heaven, I'm sending you to hell" HO defense.

[clerick]

For the most part a P-38 is nothing but a big, shiny target. A kill waiting to happen. Unless it is flown by the 80th or a few pilots. Until then, they seem to be a tough bird to be really dangerous in.

Boo

ohh really?   

[Guppy35]

You gents seem to be forgetting that the 110 is a two place airplane.  That extra weight can't help.  As for the 38 not being able to turn, I would disagree, but then again I'm a 38G driver and we don't have a clue

[nrshida]

This thread makes me want to try out the P-38 in the MA  

By the way, the Westland Whirlwind prototype had counter rotating props, a feature which was deleted from the production aircraft, even though the direction of rotation of the Rolls Royce Peregrine engine's prop gear could be easily changed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313538.0.html <- plug plug).

I find the P-38's guns difficult to use. Any pointers?

[Plazus]

I find the P-38's guns difficult to use. Any pointers?

Point and shoot. Really doesn't get more difficult than that. The nose mounted guns allow for more precise aiming. The .50 cals and 20mm gun have excellent trajectory falloff, meaning you can shoot from a very long range and still deal damage. When lining up for a shot, be gentle on the rudders and elevators, as that will throw the nose around quite a bit when aiming. I generally use a little more airleron/elevator input then rudders. The only time I really use rudders when lining up for a shot is right at the last moment before pulling the trigger.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

[Krusty]

Krusty, I'd have to disagree with you. The 110 picks up speed quickly in a dive, its just rather limited by its top end speed before compression and part shedding becomes an issue.

IMO, the most effective way to 'disengage' in a 110 1v1 is to dive untill you're JUST below your max dive speed, and then level off. Relative E-states remain the same, but you will likely have picked up some distance, probably enough to flip around and play the "if I'm going to heaven, I'm sending you to hell" HO defense.

That's not disagreeing with me. That's repeating what I've said.

[nrshida]

Point and shoot. Really doesn't get more difficult than that. The nose mounted guns allow for more precise aiming. The .50 cals and 20mm gun have excellent trajectory falloff, meaning you can shoot from a very long range and still deal damage. When lining up for a shot, be gentle on the rudders and elevators, as that will throw the nose around quite a bit when aiming. I generally use a little more airleron/elevator input then rudders. The only time I really use rudders when lining up for a shot is right at the last moment before pulling the trigger.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

Thank you Plazus. I'll give it a try 

I think I tend to give 50 cals and Hispanos far too much lead because I'm used to the Ho-5 cannon.

[icepac]

Use the minimum bank angle you can get away with in a 110 before the merge to make sure you aren't starting a fight with a "e disadvantage" and most p38s can be had pretty quickly..........but they will have you if you don't get them very early on.

The 110 will take a p38 if you are already in a tight turning fight and have plenty of altitude to burn but the p38 can turn the tables if he can get out of your gun range and climb or dive.

Fuel load is important and I only engage fighters in the 110 while at super high altitude or when letting down near the end of a mission with low fuel load.

I always up with 100% fuel and drop tanks but will lower that to 50% and drop tanks if I think fighters will be what I meet.

[Ack-Ack]

In a Bf 110 vs. P-38 fight, the Lightning holds all the cards.  It can disengage and engage the fight at will and there isn't much the Bf 110 driver can do about it other than try and escape. 

ack-ack

[ACE]

In a Bf 110 vs. P-38 fight, the Lightning holds all the cards.  It can disengage and engage the fight at will and there isn't much the Bf 110 driver can do about it other than try and escape. 

ack-ack

Ehh the 110 can HO

[clerick]

Point and shoot. Really doesn't get more difficult than that. The nose mounted guns allow for more precise aiming. The .50 cals and 20mm gun have excellent trajectory falloff, meaning you can shoot from a very long range and still deal damage. When lining up for a shot, be gentle on the rudders and elevators, as that will throw the nose around quite a bit when aiming. I generally use a little more airleron/elevator input then rudders. The only time I really use rudders when lining up for a shot is right at the last moment before pulling the trigger.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

I fly the 38 most often an, as such, I have my rudders scaled so that it is an increasing slope starting at 50%. This way I have finer control off center and it gets exponentially more as I add rudder in.

[moot]

Ehh the 110 can HO

Only a bit of advantage from up close..  Just no contest between these two.

[Tank-Ace]

That's not disagreeing with me. That's repeating what I've said.

Not really. You said he could dive away, which implys his stuructural limit is greater than that of most opponents, which is simply not true. He can dive away...... for a short distance, before he has to pull out, or shed parts (IIRC, the elevators are the first to go), during which time, his opponent has likely kept with him, or near enough.

The method for a retaliation, yes I agree. But a 110 driver can't usually ESCAPE, even in the short term. About all he can do is gain just enough room to flip around and try for a 1 'fer 1.

[Krusty]

No, it has nothing to do with terminal speed or structure durability. It simply means he can't outclimb out turn or outmanuver the opponent, the only traditional tactic left is to dive away. Which he can do and pick up some speed (opening a gap). Given time the enemy will close that gap in the long-term. It will allow an immediate escape but if the enemy is persistent he won't get away.

[PR3D4TOR]

Never had a problem with 38's while flying the 110G in the MA. Dueling is a whole different ballpark however. Those huge guns and good rudder authority make up for a lot of deficiencies in a multi-plane environment.

When flying the 110 you have to learn how to dodge a lot. If the 38 has alt on you, never engage (unless you have no choice). Shallow dive towards friendlies instead. He'll disengage if he is smart. If not, you'll drag him down so the friendlies can have at him. Co-alt you have a short window of opportunity to kill him before he can build up a decisive energy advantage on you. Sure he can climb faster, but not faster than cannon shells. If you have alt on the 38 you can spend that energy on getting a good firing position and kill him. Spend it well because you won't get many chances before he can extend and start building E on you. If he does you're back to dodging and dragging towards friendlies again.

However, in most cases Boelcke's old Dicta rule no. 1 still matters most: "Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you."