Author Topic: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?  (Read 3544 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2011, 10:44:55 PM »
Oh it is in some ways. Where low might have been considered 10k IRL, the deck is considered low here, and 15k is high, instead of 25-30K being high.
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Offline GNucks

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 10:50:57 PM »
What about just giving the 1x to bombers? Or just 4-engine bombers?

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Offline Raptor05121

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 10:57:51 PM »
What about just giving the 1x to bombers? Or just 4-engine bombers?

no. 2x burn on 25% helps my climb. by the time i reach alt, I can throttle back to max cruise and fly a few sectors. if i need long range,  or need to get back to base, I can still do so on 25%. shut down the engines and descend.

i know this sounds gamey, but us bombers are at a disadvantage here. bombers are in their prime when we have 250+ miles to climb. not 25. AH is a stricly fighters game. someone should make a map with some bases 3-4 sectors away (bombers) some bases 1-2 sectors away (fighters) and some within the same sector (GVs)
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 11:59:33 PM »
lol... bombers are at a disadvantage? In what universe?

If anything I say we need a 4x burn just for 4-engined heavies (maybe even the twins... perhaps just a separate fuel burn for bombers vs fighters), to force them to take more fuel and throttle back.

P.S. In WW2 it took hours to get to altitude, sometimes. They didn't fly at 30K and 320mph TAS. They cruised at max cruise and climbed at much less than "full power"... They also never took off without a full load of gas. Whatever the bomb load was, they maxed out their takeoff weight with gas. They never upped with 25% "to climb fast" even for short hops over the channel and back. In here they have significantly higher climb rates, almost no vices in handling at 30K+ (when they really would be falling out of the sky) and are mostly able to defend themselves once up to speed.


The USAAF would have killed (literally) for bomber capabilities like that in 1942. The war would have been over before 1943.

Offline MachFly

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2011, 12:50:15 AM »
The flaw in that is that while AH is compressed in the horizontal it is not compressed in the vertical.

That's true but because AH is compressed horizontally we have no need to climb high, therefore it's technically compressed vertically. We don't see people flying at 30K that often, but in real life that was pretty common.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2011, 01:15:08 AM »
29% or is that a typo  :headscratch:?

In AW you could set fuel in 1 degree increments.  The prevailing notion at the time was that aircraft weight was only modeled in 5% increments and would always round down to the nearest 5% so 29% would weigh the same as 25% but 30% would weigh the same as 30% and so on.  Not sure anyone ever knew if it was true or not but everyone did it.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2011, 01:35:18 AM »
Flying at 25% everywhere... 109's turn nice that low on fuel... I'm all for it.  :banana:

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Offline perdue3

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2011, 01:40:12 AM »

2x is perfect.    i can get to and from any fight i need to in a 190 or a 109 with 100%, and usually im out of ammo before im out of gas.    when it comes to american iron, i rarely ever use 100%.    IMO 1x is great for Scenarios and such, but 2x is perfectly suited to the MA environment

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2011, 03:48:50 AM »
29% or is that a typo  :headscratch:?


Karnak, big -1. We would probably see a big increase in spit an lala pilots, very few aircraft would require more than 50% fuel for standard furballing needs.

Fights would be pushed lower due to a large influx of Lala-7's and dweeb-16's.

And I'm not sure how, but it would probably result in more NOE hordes. Seems like everything results in more NOE hordes  :(.
In AW you could set fuel in 1 degree increments.  The prevailing notion at the time was that aircraft weight was only modeled in 5% increments and would always round down to the nearest 5% so 29% would weigh the same as 25% but 30% would weigh the same as 30% and so on.  Not sure anyone ever knew if it was true or not but everyone did it.

Like BaldEagle said but fuel weight was modeled in 9/10ths.  For example, if you were to take 29% the fuel weight would be the same as taking 20% fuel but with the benefit of the longer flying time the extra 9% fuel gives you without a weight penalty.  19% was perfect for base defense as it gave you about 15 minutes flight time, 29% was perfect for just about any mission withing 3-4 sectors and 39% if you wanted to fly across one side of the map and back. 

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Offline bozon

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2011, 04:21:49 AM »
I remember long thread and heated debate about the fuel multiplier during the transition between AH1 and AH2.

The practical consequence of x1 multiplier is that fuel becomes meaningless. All planes could easily fly at full throttle during a typical 20-30 minutes sortie and "RTB fuel" is something you will never hear again - players will get shot down or run our of ammo long before running out of fuel. The typical loadout will be 25%+DT with some very short legged planes going up to 50%.

Surprisingly, the planes that will benefit the most are not the short legged planes, but the ones with the highest fuel consumption - the big american radials. P47s achieve their range by carrying enough fuel to heat the homes of a small country for a year and then guzzle in a bulimic frenzy. Halving the burn rate multiplier means that planes would typically carry half the fuel they do now and this is a significantly greater weight reduction for the big radials than it is to the LA7 with its vodka bottle size fuel tank or the fuel efficient Merlins that often do not need full tanks as it is. Yes, LA7 could go longer, but how often is it really limited in range now, unless you really, absolutely, must, keep the throttle firewalled for 30 minutes?

In real action the fuel economy plays a significant role. It defined the role of planes and influenced their design. Large scale air combat ends when one side must RTB due to fuel, not when everyone is shot down. It would be a pity to completely miss this aspect to tactical combat.
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Offline Hap

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2011, 04:28:13 AM »
 :aok
Is pushing the fights lower really desirable?  Combat at altitude was a very significant part of WWII and many of the aircraft we have in Aces High are optimized for altitude.

Offline Tilt

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2011, 09:03:10 AM »
Agreed re increase in Lavochkin, Yak & Spit 16 use I think its pretty balanced the way it is.

I dont want to see my ride perked because half the arena is suddenly using it..................

However if burn rate was reduced then airfield fuel attrition should be remodelled IMO to bring back some game balance............
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2011, 09:04:17 AM »
wow I think it was unanimous.  :)
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2011, 10:07:59 AM »
Absolutely not, fuel consumption is already a non-issue in AH.  Lets not make it worse.

There are three things I strongly believe would improve or rather make more dynamic with regards to fuel in AH:

A: Increase the fuel burn rate to 2.5X: fuel consumption needs to be an issue.  Throttle and manifold pressure control is hardly an afterthought with current settings.  Managing fuel consumption should be a concern, it is Piloting 101.  Aircraft, even in WWII, did not fly %100 all the time.  There is a reason "max cruise" setting are available on the clipboard.

B: Disable DT's unless %100 fuel is selected.

C: Upon the 2nd fuel tank destroyed at a field DT's are disabled, upon the 3rd fuel tank destroyed = %75 fuel, upon the 4th destroyed = %50.


The fuel settings in AH is purely an arbitrary figure in which HTC has settled on.  There is nothing stopping them from changing the settings, or even testing new settings and reverting back to the old.  I'm told that once upon a more simple time the La7 jocks cried so loud about the original fuel setting that they were the ones who got the %25/%50 max fuel with X number of fuel tanks destroyed upped to %75, well now AH was a much larger plane set so perhaps it is time to revert???
 

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Offline Raphael

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Re: Would 1X Fuel burn rate be good for the game?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2011, 10:14:45 AM »
I agree with option A and B
C concerns me in the horde case.
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