Round 3 voting

[Krusty]

Moot, I am not following here. You seem to be posting on both sides of the Me410 issue.

Quite so... I'm not sure what's going on with him right now.

[RTHolmes]

in my mind there has always been some confusion in why someone would refer to a Bf109 as a Me109.  Does this also carry over to the 410?

from being a kid I knew them as Me109s, and as kids running around with arms out going ratatatatatat it was always spitfires vs messerschmitts

[oboe]

Meteor never shot down any aircraft! It should not be added. It is not a counter to the 262 and would open the door to all those other planes that flew during the war but never saw air combat. The 262 is the only jet this game should have. For those who want to counter the 262; fly p51s or catch then landing/takeoff it's more historical.

But since HTC included it for the poll, they must've already decided it merits inclusion.   Actually I think it did shoot down aircraft - unmanned aircraft (several V-1s).

Actually, I'd like to see V-1 weapons added to the game.  Bomber perks could be spent to launch one; the launch sites would be specially equipped Vbases.   More reason to attack bases and capture territory.

[Ping]

everyone knew them as ME109's untill technical geeks had to ensure the technically correct name must be used.

[Karnak]

everyone knew them as ME109's untill technical geeks had to ensure the technically correct name must be used.

I suspect some Germans may have known them as Bf109s ect, and history grognards the world over.

[Chilli]

Thanks for the info, and found some interesting discusions about wood (almost early composite like) construction v. metal construction.  Both were used due to material constraints.  Given these variants (doubt if we would have that choice in hangar between wood or metal) but damage models could vary.  One problem noted with the wood construction was

from wiki:  Unresolved wartime problems with the Yak-3 included plywood surfaces coming unstuck when the aircraft pulled out of a high-speed dive.[1] Other drawbacks of the aircraft were short range, and poor engine reliability. The pneumatic system for actuating landing gear, flaps and brakes, typical for all Yakovlev fighters of the time, was problematic. Though less reliable than hydraulic or electrical alternatives, the pneumatic system was preferred due to significant weight savings.

In 1944, the Normandie-Niemen Group re-equipped with the Yak-3, scoring with it the last 99 of their 273 air victories against the Luftwaffe.

Can you say French Skins?

Also:  The first 197 Yak-3 were armed with a single 20 mm ShVAK cannon and one 12.7 mm UBS machine gun, with subsequent aircraft receiving a second UBS for a weight of fire of 2.72 kg (6.0 lb) per second using high-explosive ammunition. All armament was installed close to the axis of the aircraft (cannon firing through the rotor shaft and synchronised machine guns in the fuselage above the engine), adding to the accuracy and leaving wings unloaded.


All in all, I am not impressed with anything that limits my cannon firing to about 6 seconds worth (don't know the actual firing time just to make a point).  It takes about 1/3 of my 8 50 cals to down the stick stirrers in the game as it is.

[titan312]

We should continue the voting and just produce all three remaining aircraft.  Winner is produced first and so on.   

[Ping]

We should continue the voting and just produce all three remaining aircraft.  Winner is produced first and so on.   

Absolutely Not   That means the Beau wouldn't be included 

[titan312]

I know. 

[Tilt]

One thing I like about the yak 3 is the SA value of the cockpit combined with the lack of frame getting in the way of lead shots......

although this better forward visibility comes at the price of no frontal armoured glass..................

from another sim but you get the idea




Many here compare the Yak3 to the Yak 9U which was marginally faster or the Yak 9T which was slower heavier and until 44 had the M-105PF and not the M105PF2 which had 60 hp more. So as I am not sure which engined 9T we have I can give some numbers comparing the Mid 44 Yak3 with the Late 44 Yak9U. Both equipped with the same armament. I assume the 1 cannon + 1 mg version would have been slightly lighter. Indeed these earlier units also carried 20 litres less fuel.

Climb to 5000metres
Yak3   4.1 mins (to 4.5 mins)
Yak9U 5 mins (to 5.2 mins)

360 turn
Yak 3    19 secs
Yak9U    20 secs

Speed sea level
Yak 3  351 MPH
Yak9U 357 MPH

Speed Alt
Yak 3  397 @ 14500
Yak9U 417 @ 16500

Hp (max)

Yak 3  1240HP
Yak9U 1500HP

Weight empty
Yak 3  2128kg
Yak9U 2512kg

Weight gross
Yak3   2697kg
Yak9U 3204kg

Wing area
Yak3    14.85 m^2
Yak9U  17.15 m^2

There were initial wing skinning problems  (associated only with Yak3's from the Sarotov plant) and a new type of adhesive had to be employed but the problem was solved by mid 44 and field mods inplace for those units that were so effected by late 44. Such problems were never experienced on the heavier / faster units produced at Tbilisi plant

The Yak3 was  distinguished by its excellent climb rate and its very fast acceleration particularly in a very shallow dive.  The above figures would also give us to believe it will hold E well in a multi turn combat scenario. (when compared to the 9U)

So beware even tho your rides top line speed is faster, when that Yak3 on your 6 makes a shallow dive below your tail he is probably catching you! However high G manouvres above 404mph were above standard structural limits for the air frame.

[Tank-Ace]

Me-410 for the win  !!

[Kingpin]

Meteor never shot down any aircraft! It should not be added. It is not a counter to the 262 and would open the door to all those other planes that flew during the war but never saw air combat. The 262 is the only jet this game should have. For those who want to counter the 262; fly p51s or catch then landing/takeoff it's more historical.

QFT

[mthrockmor]

from being a kid I knew them as Me109s, and as kids running around with arms out going ratatatatatat it was always spitfires vs messerschmitts

I did some research and think I found the answer. Willy Messerschmitt worked for a company called  Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (German for Bavarian Aircraft Company.) While working for Bf he developed his namesake fighter, model 109. Once accepted by the Reich Ministry it was given the designation Bf-109, which stuck as the formal designation. In 1938 Willy Messerschmitt purchased this company where it became the Messerschmitt company. From this point on all products were given the designation Me. While Bf and Me seem to be interchangeably, technically planes types developed and accepted by the Ministry pre-purchase were given Bf, after purchase Me.

This would argue that Bf-110, Me-410, Me-262, etc are correct.

Does anyone have info to add or correct?

Boo

[TheRapier]

During WWII all Allied flyers referred to them as Me109s and Me110s. Bf109 and Bf110 is technically more correct since they were build by Bayerischefluegzugwerk (bad German spelling) but no one then called them that.

[FireDrgn]

                                                                                                          Yak 3