Big wolf

[gyrene81]

Please show me were I advocated "eradicating" any species.

I think that I made it clear that I have no problem with the predators, as long as they don't try to compete with me at the dinner table.

I will murder the crap out of any animal that tries to steal food from my family. Humans included.

Gyrene is a cheese head that thinks he saw a coyote once.  

your ignorance has shined throughout your less than knowledgeable rantings in this discussion.


ridiculously ignorant statements #1 and #2

I'm glad it's dead.

Wolves were run off for a reason... some people seem to forget.

Wolves are crap and were run off to feed people. This is a fact and will never change.

Now piss off.

wolves weren't "run off", they were hunted to near extinction. they were viewed as a threat to settlers and their livestock. even now the wolf population is regarded by "social carrying capacity", the number of wolves humans are willing to tolerate.


ignorant statement #3

Yes Puppet, they are "our" deer.

When you end up at the top of the food chain, the world is yours.


Of course diptards like you wouldn't know anything about proper stewardship. Except Flench, I miss him.

neither the deer, nor the wolves or any living breathing thing born into the wild "belongs to" humans. when you get that into your skull, you will have become a better person.



and the epitomy of defining dumb...

This is true. This is why we have to accept the responsibility and keep a proper balance.

In the U.P. the wolf population has exploded to the point that I don't see anymore deer herds at 0345. Back in the day I had to slow down for the hooved rodents.

We also have a ton of coyote, pine marten, and cats (mostly bobcat, but I saw a pic of a cougar with a tracking collar). These are slaughtering the hare and partridge.

What you fellows don't realize is that, as the boss mofo's, it's up to us to keep the game bountiful.

WE ARE THE PREDATORS.

Let the doggies and kitties live elsewhere.

EDIT: It's not like we're slashing and burning the habitat.

Another thing. We are overrun with wild turkeys. They are excellent predator food, but they also stomp on partridge nests.

The balance is getting lopsided towards the hippy animals. This is bad.


EDIT2: Of course, you dorks could try to tell me otherwise, without any first-hand knowledge of course.

EDIT3: When I catch Northern pike I feed them to the eagles. Or I just stab them and let their brothers feast. I've pulled up hammer handles that were destroyed by big daddies, so yeah, I have no problem eviscerating a nard.

even the backward, uneducated hillbillies in tennessee couldn't spout anything that ridiculous if they tried. every village, town, city, industrial center in your state exists from slash and burn of natural habitat. the deer populations aren't suffering from an increase in predatory animals, they are suffering decimation at the hands of humans like yourself who think they posesses sole ownership of the wildlife. only someone totally out of touch with reality would miss the fact that allowing 1.5 million people with guns loose in the woods to hunt a deer population of ~1.5 million has a bigger impact than a 1000 wolves.

do the math, 1.5 million licensed hunters, ~1.5 million deer, 250-500,000 kills (mostly males) every year. 1000 wolves, 1 deer every 5-10 days. which one does the most damage to the deer population in a year?


and just so you don't make the mistake again, i "live" in wisconsin...i'm not a native of the state. i have lived in nearly every state and hunted in 10 states. sitting in a tree with a weapon and tossing bait on the ground is not hunting...

[Melvin]

do the math, 1.5 million licensed hunters, ~1.5 million deer, 250-500,000 kills (mostly males)

sitting in a tree with a weapon and tossing bait on the ground is not hunting...

Your ignorance of the situation is glaring Gyrene.

Or your reading comprehension sucks.

[Dichotomy]

and just so you don't make the mistake again, i "live" in wisconsin...i'm not a native of the state. i have lived in nearly every state and hunted in 10 states. sitting in a tree with a weapon and tossing bait on the ground is not hunting...

 

[skorpion]

Your ignorance of the situation is glaring Gyrene.

Or your reading comprehension sucks.

it seems that the problem here is you, where YOU are not understanding what he's saying.

have you even shot a deer?

[Melvin]

I think I said something about "harvesting" and "hunting".

But you pudwhackers wouldn't know the difference, would you?

[Melvin]

it seems that the problem here is you, where YOU are not understanding what he's saying.

have you even shot a deer?

Yes skorpion, I've shot a deer.

In fact, hunting and fishing was the only reason I spoke with my Dad. Then he died and I quit for 10 years. It just wasn't the same. Then my Wife and I had children, and I got back into it. Because you can give a man a fish, and feed him for a day. Or you can teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.

[mtnman]

mtnman, Some great points in there, and some points that I can flat out refute.

1+2)The "balance" idea is the whole rub. Jim Hammel was the DNR biologist that pushed (set up and made happen) the re-introduction of the Timber Wolf to the Upper Peninsula.

I believe he retired in the early 00's, after which the program went feral, and the wolf population ran amok.

3) WE ARE THE PREDATORS... that was just thrown in to let them know how I feel.

4) Let the doggies and kitties... Of course I feel that we should have a predator population. A balanced one, of course. And don't get me started on the cougar.

5) We're not slashing and burning.... Try wiping your bum with a plastic bag. Massive windfall every year. We try to not cut the hardwoods too thin, because if you do it leads to massive raspberry patches. And then Black bears. Greasy black bears.  

6) Yes Sir

7) How much intimate knowledge do I have?

I've trekked for days. over as much land as I could legally walk across. I had a search party sent out once... (not my call) and was given up for dead on another occasion.

Back in the 80's I would never leave the farm without less than 2 dogs, because wolves and cougars were well known in Iron county.

My Uncle had a dog named (ironicly) "Wolf" he had the curly hairs on his hind legs. We watched him run down and kill a coyote one afternoon.  

I have stories all day...

 


EDIT: And I don't really care if some Least coast skin jockey thinks I'm wrong. Or some udder tugger for that matter.

EDIT2: Big dog. 

Which points did you refute?  

You've walked around a lot in the UP.  Very cool.  Does that qualify you as an expert in some way?  How so?

I don't doubt you can tell a lot of stories.

[Melvin]

I guess I'm just sick of people sticking up for wolves when I know damn well that the population is out of hand.

Watch, they will be de-listed in this state by spring.

[PuppetZ]

nvm

[gyrene81]

Your ignorance of the situation is glaring Gyrene.

Or your reading comprehension sucks.

actually your ignorance of the situation is glaring. i looked up the dnr numbers for 2010 from your wonderously simpleton state. the wolf population numbers i extrapolated from the estimated grey wolf population in the northern half of the state which was ~577 animals in 2009. the population in the south is smaller.

you make it way to easy to insult your intelligence melvin. you called someone else "city boy" yet you speak just like a city dweller that thinks the only wildlife he should see is a bumble bee flying around his yard or whatever he finds in a zoo. the animals were not put on the planet for your indescriminant disposal, no matter how big a man you think you are. the real hunters are the ones who value all wildlife, not just the ones they view as useful.

[Melvin]

no matter how big a man you think you are. the real hunters are the ones who value all wildlife, not just the ones they view as useful.

And this is the fundamental failing of your comprehension.

[saggs]

Remember all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on both sides when they reintroduced wolves to Yellowstone in 1995?  It was a huge debate, and while I supported bringing back the wolves I also had great sympathy for the cattlemen and shepherds on the other side, my grandfather was a cattleman after all.

In the end I think it all worked out, compromises where made to allow ranchers and shepherds to protect their livestock (though at first they where far to restrictive, and had to be changed to be feasible).  The wolves have spread out all over the greater Yellowstone ecosystem with a few moving as far away as Northern Utah, and AFAIK they have put no cattle or sheep folks out of business.  Has it been an inconvenience for them?  Sure, but much, much less of an inconvenience then bears (and lions too for sheep) which they have always dealt with.

All the predictions of the Yellowstone wolves wrecking the hunting industry in Montana and Wyoming have proven totally false.  Hunting is a huge tourist attraction in Montana, guides where worried about wolves taking to many Elk.  Turns out to be total BS, grizzly bears kill more elk then wolves and have always been around, and the bears have a much bigger impact since they tend to take reproducing cows and calfs, whereas the wolves are more inclined take tired old bulls which might not make it to the next hunting season anyway (because wolves hunt most actively post rut, when the elk are snowed together, the old bulls have expended their energy rutting, and the bears are hibernating).  Sure the wolves now kill their share of elk too, I got to watch them do it once and it's very impressive.  But elk that the wolves take are only small dent on top of an already massive dent that grizzlies and humans already make.  And after all that, more elk die from natural cause every winter then from all predators combined.

Call me a tree-hugger if you want, I call myself a conservationist (because the term environmentalist has been hijacked by crazy extremists and politicians) and I believe humans have a responsibility to be good stewards of the resources we have.  Since we've kill of and displaced so many natural predators, part of that stewardship must include humans hunting, and so I very much support hunting, and hunters rights.  At the same time I don't think we should be exterminating any more natural predators, if humans get to hunt a few less deer and elk, so that the wolves, bears and lions get to live, that's part of that stewardship I feel.

[kilo2]

I was hunting once up in northern Minnesota and we had seen a yearling wandering around the area we were hunting and it was bleating. We think we may have shot its mother as we killed a doe early in the morning. Anyway the yearling was wandering around right in front of my stand just out of sight in the wood line. It didn't take long for the wolves to find the yearling a bunch of em as far as I could tell. They were whipped up in a frenzy I caught glimpse of em just running back and forth slobbering and panting. I could see why people where afraid of them back in the day. I had a gun and it was very disconcerting. 

[dentin]

is everyone where you live as ignorant as you? before your european redneck ancestors crossed the creek, spread like a disease and ravaged the land, everything you claim ownership to existed in harmony. humans didn't attempt to posesses everything they could see.

anyone who talks about eradicating an animal species hasn't got a single clue about "proper stewardship". the wildlife doesn't belong to you or anyone you will ever meet.

Finally!!!  A voice of reason AND common sense!! 

[Buzzard7]

I am thinking that "HUMANS" without their weapons are NOT the top of the food chain. Most of us wouldn't stand a chance against a bear or wolf with our bare hands.