Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:

[SEseph]

when they run those horde missions the rest of the country suffers with little defenders left, if you cant take a feild with 10 guys then you have problems, but this isnt about skill anymore its just a numbers game plain and simple. Just throw overwhelming numbers at them.

WELL SAID!!!!! 

[Max]

{Dorothy Wizard of Oz voice

OH MY GOODNESS!!

[mbailey]

Ive got the cure for this problem, a couple of modifications and I think ill be ready to post it in the wishlist  

[Blooz]

We finally took a base?

Awesome!

I'm glad you got a picture of it. It may be years before we see that happen again!

Roll Knights!!

[Lusche]

when they run those horde missions the rest of the country suffers with little defenders left, if you cant take a feild with 10 guys then you have problems, but this isnt about skill anymore its just a numbers game plain and simple. Just throw overwhelming numbers at them.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing that has changed about this in the last ...lemme think... 6 years. This picture could easily had been taken when I joined AH. Same stuff back then. 

Oh, with one particular difference: The ganging of the smaller country was actually worse back then, because of the different requirements for winning a war.
But that's the kind of details that sometimes tend to get lost in the golden sun of nostalgia   

[The Fugitive]

There is nothing, absolutely nothing that has changed about this in the last ...lemme think... 6 years. This picture could easily had been taken when I joined AH. Same stuff back then. 

Oh, with one particular difference: The ganging of the smaller country was actually worse back then, because of the different requirements for winning a war.
But that's the kind of details that sometimes tend to get lost in the golden sun of nostalgia   

I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.

[68ZooM]

I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.

agreed, it's the norm of the skilless players to flock together seeking protection in numbers.

[Lusche]

I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.

Local numerical superiority has probably always been the #1 cause for capturing a base, but surely it has been all the time since I'm playing AH. You just could "sneak" bases easier back then, as one guy could hope to gun down a remote town quick enough for a quick grab.

It was the norm back in tour 70 as well as it was now. Early in 2006 I had to switch countries from Rook to Knights because of the big "Alliance" thing happening in Rookland - multi-wing squadron operations literally flattening all enemy bases on a particular front, then swarming the area with hordes, completely killing all combat. The "vtards controversy" on the BBS earlier this year was just a pale reminiscence of that stuff. When I joined AH, I was frequently told that "this game has been ruined", "it's all about numbers and hordes now", and "all the fight is gone".

Interestingly years later I found many a guy once camping spawns in Tigers with me side by side or leading raids to shut down fields complaining about the degradation of gameplay. And refusing to take into consideration that maybe his stakes had grown higher over time.

Also, today the bigger countries do have to face each other at one point if they want to go for the win. Back in the days, they did not have to do that, and consequently often didn't. Before the requirements for winning the war had been changed, a county just needed to have the biggest share of the sole "losing" country, so both bigger ones piled on the smaller one with much greater persistence than today. It's not anywhere near that extreme today.

agreed, it's the norm of the skilless players to flock together seeking protection in numbers.

Again, that's nothing new.

[RTHolmes]

I really dont like these "strike missions", but although I never take part I have to take some of the blame for them. why? because I know what I'm doing and I hardly ever run country missions myself.

most players like to fly together and organised to one degree or another. if the only choice you have to do this is in a strike horde, then thats what you'll do. if there were more country missions set up far fewer people would horde, but knits have never posted many missions since Ive been playing.

Its unreasonable to complain about hordes if you're not going to give the less experienced players an alternative, and that goes for the hording and the horded side. Its harder to get a horde together if you're already fighting 6 different battles along your front, whether defending or attacking.

[Chilli]

Base flat, ack down and CV offshore.  Thank goodness there are: (Horde implied)

First of all, I flew in about 3 or 4 of "Jayro's Missions" yesterday.  None of them that I flew in was initiated by anything other than an announcement on country channel.  For example, "We will be meeting..... yada ....yada.."  About the 3rd mission that I flew on, maybe it ended up resulting in that pictured above.  Before we launched, I believe it was Jayro who commented on the numbers in the force.  He had made no mission through the planner listing 64 positions.  Nor did he spam the country channel for 10 minutes for folks to join the mission.  Nope, all he did was pick a logical target and say hey fellas meet me with whatever you think will help capture a base (my words not his- all he really said was, "meet me").  Well done Knights 

No one should think this screenshot is anything other than normal for an organized base capture / insert your country HERE.  As for calling for support from the CV, this is where I take your amusement and say the joke is actually bringing a large force only to be repelled by a handfull (sound familiar / insert your country HERE).   Why does no one take a picture of the troop carriers that had to dodge 262s hunting for them, praying that when/ if they make it there the town will be ready.

Ready means:  White flagged (long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom), deacked (not a single auto ack up in town or in some cases even on airfield within 1k ft. -- again long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom -- good luck having your magic timer set properly), town cleared of enemy vehicles and or aircraft -- once again long enough for all 10 troops to clear the maproom -- because if one slips and gets wounded = oh well, and lastly, it means that no smartazz is sitting in the shore battery  shelling his own maproom!

I love / hate the horde also....   absolutely love to catch one developing, get in an early war ride and collect scalps and land, and oh yes.... killing a sneaky goon or several m3s in the process (priceless).  I hate trying to defend arriving too late and being vulched, rocketed and even bombed in the spawn hangar, also hate arriving late in a horde and not having the opportunity to vulch, rocket or bomb enemies in the spawn hangar.

Lusche (I prefer Snailman as a handle  ), your memory is a little off, however I do concur that the "superior numbers" game has not changed.  What has changed is the complexity of the town and ack, requiring larger numbers for captures of heavily defended fields.  I have been around long enough to know that pre new towns, 4 or 5 guys with their act together, could effectively take just about any base they attacked.

[Tank-Ace]

Yeah but how many dozen augered dive bombing or died in field ack.  Surely Nits can't take a field with only 62 highly unskilled elite pilits.

Better than what the rooks or bish can boast.


Knits: occational large hordes

Bish: NOE carrier hordes with 30+ planes in the mission that can cap the base in under 2 minutes, as well as  large hordes of the "we can't beat you in an equal fight, so we'll just bury you in bodies" variatey.

Rooks: multiple hordes of equal size attcking a single country

[Debrody]

Well, Holmes,
look it from my eyepoint. This game is about fun, i think we all can agree with it. Now tell me what is fun taking part in a 62 vs 0-5. None of them will have a real "fight", only a pick as Fugi said, but only if they are lucky.
Is it fun to fly against a formation like this? For me, sure it is, just have to choose the proper aircraft and get a couple wingmen. Tempests, and especially 262s shine against hordes, about a month ago me and Irish got like 15 in 10 minutes, 2 vs like 40. A wing of 4-5 262s could totally ruin that basetake (unless the knits could roll GVs, of course). Other thing that would be crazy avoid all the 62 trying to ho ramm you haha
   What i wanted to say... why is it good for them? Woo they got like 5 kills all together and toke a base. Yet they cheat themselves, thinking about how good they are... Put any of those into an 1v1, if they cant ho you down or run away, they are all dead in 2 turns. Can you remember that fight about 6 months ago, me and you on the deck, got 17 bishs together and could rtb... why? Couse we actually like to fight and keep practicing ourselves.
Btw that was a real awsome winging. And im just a little newbie.

This is the difference.

[Lusche]

Lusche (I prefer Snailman as a handle  ), your memory is a little off, however I do concur that the "superior numbers" game has not changed.  What has changed is the complexity of the town and ack, requiring larger numbers for captures of heavily defended fields.  I have been around long enough to know that pre new towns, 4 or 5 guys with their act together, could effectively take just about any base they attacked.

Actually I

You just could "sneak" bases easier back then, as one guy could hope to gun down a remote town quick enough for a quick grab.

And yes, that is the thing that has changed, the bases need much more effort to get captured today. One could either complain about about having to rely on bigger numbers (which is a natural result of that increased requirement), or one could be glad that the silent sneaks are mostly a thing of the past.

Bases had rarely been captured by a "clean and balanced fight" up to the end. Even if a battle started that way, at one point it ended up with one side dominating, capping the base - and the losing side taking their screenshots to the forum


And another thing comes to my mind... I found the frequency of NOE raids being much reduced since the dar changes too. Another thing that we can't really file under "more fights back in the day".

[AWwrgwy]

I disagree Lusche. Sure it happened back in the old days, but it wasn't the norm as it is now.

The big change between now and "The Olde Days" that I have noticed is the attacking "hoard" used to leave the hangers up and vultch.

The norm now seems to be for the first ten planes in to auger on all of the hangers and ack and then take out the town.

Granted, the town is a bit harder to take down now but it used to be, hit the town, cap the field, get the troops in.

The only defense now is stay low and hope you find all, and I mean all multiple, goons because you can only take off once.

NOE doesn't matter. If anything it may hurt because you are low where the defenders can get you.

Dar range may not matter. I suppose if you saw the measles attacking sooner more may up but it has been my experience that the "Alert" call on country channel is rarely responded to right away.

My main question is, is it fun? You don't do anything but fly there and land.

Airline pilot anyone?


wrongway

[Chilli]

I stand corrected Snailman,

We are in agreement.  Except in the past 4 or 5 guys didn't need to use NOE tactics.  There was enough action elsewhere and less ack to deal with.  Wrongway beat me to the part about leaving hangars up (result of less ack).  Back then, the biggest deterent to a base attack, was LTAR's.  They were as welcome in a battle as the vDevils are now.

Possibly to add to the fiddling with dar altitude, we also have maps that allow their shore batteries to canibalize it's maproom (something that I find infinitely more annoying than hordes).

(Edit:  Gave Fugi credit for Wrongway's comment - fixed)