Author Topic: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:  (Read 3950 times)

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #90 on: November 02, 2011, 09:51:39 PM »
So a mission planner gets things going...

"OK guys we're gonna go NOE to A-XX. Grab yer 110's and let's head out."

"Oh wait, we can only have nine guys because any more and the building hardness increases."

"Sorry Melvin, you can't come."

 :cry  :cry  :cry   :lol


Totally gaming the game is what I predict if this sort of thing comes to fruition. 


...and that is whats wrong with the game.... the players that look at it like this.

How much fun are NOEs? Sure the first 15 or 20 might be fun, but after 50, 100, 200? Doesn't it get boring? If I join a mission and those are the "orders" I'm out before it leave the tower, let alone the ground.

You get out of this what you put in it. If you always do the same thing over and over again it gets boring, and you get "burnt out". If you make lame simple mission that challenge no one then thats what you going to have lame boring missions. If you fight every plane the same way most of your fights are going to end the same way. That goes for the noobs as well as the hot sticks.  If your in a 109-K4 and come up against a pony and you do the same maneuvers you do every time you run into a pony it's going to get boring, even if your winning it !

No one looks to challenge themselves any more. Everyone looks for the easy way out....how boring!

So if the community doesn't wish to change the "game" will continue to stagnate. More and more players will become bored....err burnt out and take a break. Some will come back, others will move on. HTC on the other hand could create changes that force the community to change, and they have at other times. They will again. I know, my rose colored glasses are what lead me, but if I'm so wrong why were there need for changes before? We always had NOEs but it was until recently that HTC changed the radar to make it harder to run them and there by cutting the number of NOE mission drastically.

Yes there were complaints about hordes and poor game play in the old days, but it is not as rampant as it is now. I've been playing this game for over 10 years, never took a break. I may not put in the hours I use to but I'm still here. Always looking for that next good fight. The other night it was a running battle between me in B24s and Snuggie in a 110. We went over a number of sectors and he was careful and finally got all 3 of my buffs. I hit him a few times but his angle in and out made it really hard to land any good ones. It was a blast!

I'm a fighter guy, but was in a buff because I didn't want to be in the horde and had gotten tired of fighting against a horde, so I changed it up. Doing the same thing over and over isn't going to cut it. Todays players spend most of their time doing the same thing over and over.... kinda like all those xbox games. A,A,up,up, down, B,B pick up the gold and do the same thing to the next guy. It's that mentality that cause people to ask for the same things over and over.... we need more eye candy, why? because they are bored looking at the old stuff while they hit  A,A,up,up, down, B,B We need new planes, why because they are bored augering the one they fly now. and the best one of all, we need new maps WHY? Your NOE mission will work the same as on the old maps!

If we accept the fact that the game is a "combat" game then the only thing that will keep the game going is COMBAT. If the players have to be forced into combat so be it. Other wise HTC might as well just make a mission launcher, you pick a side to be on, and the mission launches. You complete your mission objective and win points if you don't you get nothing. Turn the game in to a planned action based game like all the others. Wow, that sounds like fun, anyone up for a quest?

Offline grizz441

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #91 on: November 02, 2011, 09:59:12 PM »
Perhaps a "Dicta Fugitive" is needed so everyone can see once and for all what is okay and what is not.  Juggler did a fantastic job with his Dicta Juggler and Dicta Sheeple.  Step up Fugi!

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #92 on: November 02, 2011, 11:21:25 PM »
I think the only way you could fundamentally change the nature of the game is if 'win the map' disappeared.  If at a certain point there was no further you could go and you had to then fight and defend what you've taken, it would make it easier for folks to take the risk to come out of the mob.

Even if your country got backed up as far as it could be, there would still be incentive to try and regroup and fight too instead of saying the heck with it.  Rotate the maps every 24 or 48 hours so they don't get stale too.  With the ultimate goal right now being 'win the map' and win it fast, there is more incentive to remain in the largest crowd and find your success in base capture messages.

The other thought would be making it harder to take a base the further into the other guy's country you got.  Make supply lines vulnerable, and defenses tougher the closer they get to HQ.  Make it a real challenge to take the battle all the way to the end.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 11:23:18 PM by Guppy35 »
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2011, 11:55:06 PM »
I think the only way you could fundamentally change the nature of the game is if 'win the map' disappeared.  If at a certain point there was no further you could go and you had to then fight and defend what you've taken, it would make it easier for folks to take the risk to come out of the mob.

And there's the essence of Fugi's rose colored glasses. 

Back in AW there were only three capturable bases.  People fought like crazy to take or defend them (including the immortal death stars).  The rest of the map was uncapturable even though bases could be temporarily closed.  Unless you were a base taker playing for the three capturable bases there wasn't much left but the glory of the fight.  Even if you were a base taker and took the base you soon had to become a base defender.

Missions were more complex as you needed to close the enemy bases near the capturables to make the capture easier, thus you had to spread your resources to accomplish multiple objectives.  Strats were also more impactful as closing the Spit factory meant no Spits for that country.

While all that was going on the furthest bases from the capturables had no strategic significance so were largely left alone.  This left space for the furballers to play their hearts away in immortalized places like the Vod and C5.

Not to leave the GVer's out there were bridges over the rivers allowing sneak attacks into the capturables and enemy territory to close bases.  No spawn points.  Drive time.

AW did do some things incredibly well in retrospect.  The mechanics of the game have changed.  The players have not in all this time.  IMO it's incumbent on HT to work out the mechanics to make the game work for everyone.  Clearly AW did a better job in this regard.  Is it time to look back to the future?
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #94 on: November 03, 2011, 12:11:45 AM »
And there's the essence of Fugi's rose colored glasses. 

Back in AW there were only three capturable bases.  People fought like crazy to take or defend them (including the immortal death stars).  The rest of the map was uncapturable even though bases could be temporarily closed.  Unless you were a base taker playing for the three capturable bases there wasn't much left but the glory of the fight.  Even if you were a base taker and took the base you soon had to become a base defender.

Missions were more complex as you needed to close the enemy bases near the capturables to make the capture easier, thus you had to spread your resources to accomplish multiple objectives.  Strats were also more impactful as closing the Spit factory meant no Spits for that country.

While all that was going on the furthest bases from the capturables had no strategic significance so were largely left alone.  This left space for the furballers to play their hearts away in immortalized places like the Vod and C5.

Not to leave the GVer's out there were bridges over the rivers allowing sneak attacks into the capturables and enemy territory to close bases.  No spawn points.  Drive time.

AW did do some things incredibly well in retrospect.  The mechanics of the game have changed.  The players have not in all this time.  IMO it's incumbent on HT to work out the mechanics to make the game work for everyone.  Clearly AW did a better job in this regard.  Is it time to look back to the future?

In the end that's what I'm remembering.  And I remember when it changed in AW3 and folks figured out you could take the entire map.  I'm pretty sure I was there the first time it was done. And I do believe that changed the dynamics for the worse.

Now that you mention it, I do remember those bridges and taking jeeps across them on "Rat Patrol" runs :)
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Offline uptown

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2011, 01:16:33 AM »
 :salute The Fugitive


I like the way you think  :aok
Some of you are saying that the type of player hasn't changed any over the years. That's not what I believe. When I started in 2005or6, the training arena was full every night. The people in there I talked to or heard on range were in their 30s 40s and even 50s. Some old man from the Satans Playmates took the time and showed me how to land a P51D. I was still a #guy and he invited me to the squad and all those guys were 30s and 40s.
Now the TA is empty every night and the DA and MA is filled with boys like "Midway" looking to be Johnny Bravo of the intardnet and here we're all raisin' hell about it on the BBS several years later.   :huh
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 01:44:51 AM by uptown »
Lighten up Francis

Offline Melvin

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #96 on: November 03, 2011, 04:12:16 AM »

...and that is whats wrong with the game.... the players that look at it like this.


Umm yeah, that is what's wrong with this game.  :rolleyes:




No one looks to challenge themselves any more. Everyone looks for the easy way out....how boring!



No one but teh uber pee lots like you, that is. How ridiculously arrogant.
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Offline moot

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #97 on: November 03, 2011, 05:04:32 AM »
The path of least resistance.  It ain't arrogance to call it for what it is.
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Offline kilo2

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #98 on: November 03, 2011, 05:16:59 AM »
Such a cruel world where people don't act the way you want them to act and do what you want them to do.

Oh the humanity!





PS

NOEs are fun I did them and to this day I join them whenever I see them.
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #99 on: November 03, 2011, 07:16:44 AM »
there's a easy way to stop them. if the nits are hording, do this-- Get on 200 an type the following:   "Dear Bishops, please help us kill Nits--your friends--the Rooks!". then you attack them from 2 fronts. it stops them pretty quick and its alot of fun! used to work for us in the midwar all the time! 

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2011, 08:17:06 AM »
Perhaps a "Dicta Fugitive" is needed so everyone can see once and for all what is okay and what is not.  Juggler did a fantastic job with his Dicta Juggler and Dicta Sheeple.  Step up Fugi!

Everything is ok as long as there is combat involved. Pretty easy Dicta.


Umm yeah, that is what's wrong with this game.  :rolleyes:

No one but teh uber pee lots like you, that is. How ridiculously arrogant.

My point is there is really nothing wrong with the game, its the players.

As for me being uber LOL ya right! The point is, where's the challenge in 30 guys running NOE and capturing a base? There is none.

You still haven't told me your I'm game name Melvin. You hiding something?

Offline grizz441

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #101 on: November 03, 2011, 08:18:34 AM »
Everything is ok as long as there is combat involved. Pretty easy Dicta.

Fair enough, but we will still need a Dicta Fugitive to simply explain what "combat" is.

Offline MarineUS

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #102 on: November 03, 2011, 01:12:01 PM »

...and that is whats wrong with the game.... the players that look at it like this.

How much fun are NOEs? Sure the first 15 or 20 might be fun, but after 50, 100, 200? Doesn't it get boring? If I join a mission and those are the "orders" I'm out before it leave the tower, let alone the ground.

Some people thoroughly enjoy it. I enjoy flying mainly bombers at 25K+ alt. People always tell me how boring it is for them and that they'd rather go in and dog fight. Dog fighting is nowhere near my specialty (I suck at it....badly) but I don't hate on those who enjoy doing it over and over and over, even after they hate on us "win teh warz" types. Why? Because it's their $15.00.

I love upping against the horde because it means I will get a kill and I can be canon fodder long enough for allies to up and mount a defense. I may suck at dog fighting but I can make people chase me for a long long long time. "C'mon sweet thang. Get that tunnel vision. ;)"

What isn't fun to you may be a blast for someone else. I think it's kinda fun weaving in, out and around the trees. More challenging than trying to avoid those deadly clouds of doom.  :uhoh

 :salute
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #103 on: November 03, 2011, 02:47:26 PM »
Some people thoroughly enjoy it. I enjoy flying mainly bombers at 25K+ alt. People always tell me how boring it is for them and that they'd rather go in and dog fight. Dog fighting is nowhere near my specialty (I suck at it....badly) but I don't hate on those who enjoy doing it over and over and over, even after they hate on us "win teh warz" types. Why? Because it's their $15.00.

I love upping against the horde because it means I will get a kill and I can be canon fodder long enough for allies to up and mount a defense. I may suck at dog fighting but I can make people chase me for a long long long time. "C'mon sweet thang. Get that tunnel vision. ;)"

What isn't fun to you may be a blast for someone else. I think it's kinda fun weaving in, out and around the trees. More challenging than trying to avoid those deadly clouds of doom.  :uhoh

 :salute

I agree that some people love it. That will change tho, even you and fighters  :devil I've seen many a player say they were happy only buffing, or GVing, or running in a mega squad. After awhile tho they get bored and look to try something new. HTC has provided a bunch of things to do and many ways to do them.

NOE's are a good example. There were always there. The Mafia use to run a couple every squad night. Then they became the main way to take a base. Why because it was the easiest way to do it with less than skilled players. Any group of 15-20 guys  :rolleyes: could grab a base that way. It became so popular the night was nothing but jumping from flashing base to flashing base to try and stop them. HTC changed the radar. Now you can run  NOE's but its not as common as it was. It's a bit harder to do and takes a bit more skill....or a map with lots of water around but they forced a change in play. They didn't STOP anyone from running NOEs, but they did force them into a different way to run them.

They shouldn't take away ANY type of play, but like NOEs they shouldn't be the ONLY type of play either.

Offline moot

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Re: Base flat, ack down and CV offshore. Thank goodness there are:
« Reply #104 on: November 03, 2011, 02:55:30 PM »
Fair enough, but we will still need a Dicta Fugitive to simply explain what "combat" is.
Come on, seriously?
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