Author Topic: Dream Park technology TODAY  (Read 416 times)

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Dream Park technology TODAY
« on: November 01, 2011, 06:12:02 PM »
I thought it would be MIT, but it looks like Microsoft has nailed most of the augmented reality requirements behind Larry Niven's "Dream Park".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frGEzlrhve0

This is absolutely amazing.  Implementing this with multiple projectors including personal visors so each gamer can see stuff that maybe the other gamers can't see is pretty much all that is left to do, with respect to the basic tech needed to run the first dream park game.

Add GPS, and you could easily augment the rest of the world.  Google and MS ought to partner together for global reality augmentation...  I bet that next year's smartphones would be able to easily do all of the client processing, with the rest being served up via local wireless hotspots owned by any business or group that wants to own/sponsor an augmented location.

Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline chaser

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 793
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 08:05:47 PM »
That's amazing!

But I can't really see how it can be used. How exactly would it be used for gaming?

Offline GNucks

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1324
      • VF-17 "Jolly Rogers"
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 08:22:37 PM »
That's amazing!

But I can't really see how it can be used. How exactly would it be used for gaming?

Imagine the "flashlight" style projector mounted to your head instead of being handheld. You could have indoor VR style gaming using that kind of setup. It seems much more feasible to me than goggles/glasses to project the image.

Rebel - Inactive
An amateur trains until he gets it right, a professional until he can't get it wrong.
vf-17.webuda.com

Offline Dichotomy

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12386
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 08:57:41 PM »
um.. wow?  Nice find Eagl
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9891
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 09:53:38 PM »
Imagine the "flashlight" style projector mounted to your head instead of being handheld. You could have indoor VR style gaming using that kind of setup. It seems much more feasible to me than goggles/glasses to project the image.

How do you do stereo 3d.

How do you power the projector for long periods of time.

A projector strapped to your head is going to get heavy.

Augmented reality glasses are coming along nicely, projectors would be a giant step backwards.

eagl Microsoft really hasn't broken any new ground, there's been all sorts of stuff like those floating around for a bit.  Have a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i1NYVaYv8g


Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 10:11:31 PM »
That's amazing!

But I can't really see how it can be used. How exactly would it be used for gaming?

In the video you can see that the virtual world is populated with not only markings on existing room surfaces, but with virtual objects as well.  The projectors show those objects when the projector is aimed at the location where the object or markings are, and then the person can interact in a realistic 3D manner with those objects (like kicking the virtual cubes around, picking them up and putting them on the desk, pouring a stream of small balls onto surfaces where they then roll and cascade around as if gravity were acting on them, etc).

Well, imagine the images not only being displayed with projectors, but also with 3D goggles on your face.  Now you see the virtual objects and overlays wherever you look, and you can interact with EVERYTHING in the virtual world by every movement you make.  Not only that, each player may be able to see special objects or markings that the other players can't, based on their personal special skills.  For example, a thief might be able to see markings that point out a secret doorway that the other players can't see or open.

One player could see a nasty critter about to attack another player from behind, or see that another player is about to step on a trap, even if the player about to interact with the virtual object is not looking at it or doesn't see it.

Virtual weapons can also be used.  The player would carry a simple sword or weapon hilt with a short foam pointer, and the computer would draw a virtual weapon around the hilt.  Or inert guns could be made to shoot virtual bullets that interact with virtual or real objects.  A real bow could shoot virtual arrows.

The game master watches things in real time, and whatever events are not handled by the automated routines, the game master handles.  For example, if you swipe a sword through a monster, the automatic routine ought to inflict damage on the monster.  But if a magician casts a verbal spell, the game master would be needed to judge if the spell was appropriate and effective, and then apply the right changes to the environment to reflect the results of the spell.  Some puzzles or other interactions could be automated, but anytime the gamer does something unexpected, the game master would have to modify the game in real-time to implement the expected results of the gamer's actions.

And that's the neat part about dream park technology - the game designers mix real and virtual objects to create an interactive world.  A real object the players must interact with (a treasure chest, for example) might be a real chest that they have to lug around, but the monster guarding it could be virtual.  Some monsters could be real though, so you gotta be careful not to use real weapons :)  Swing your fake weapon through the real or virtual monster, see the virtual blood or actual gory fake blood spurt!  Point your finger and shout a cool sounding spell, and the game master can make lightning shoot out of your finger and explode whatever you're pointing at.

A game designer can create any genre of game.  You could do anything from Dungeons and Dragons, to MYST, to space based FPS shooters, to flightsims, to... well, anything really.  The designer just mixes real and virtual objects in the gaming area, and does his best to smooth the transitions between the scenes or events as the game progresses.  For example, a room that the gamers pass through might be a combat area the first time, but the next time they go through the room, game trolls may have replaced the combat scenery with cockpits and the virtual overlay makes the room look like a hangar.  All you have to do is change the props in the room, and the virtual environment adds the rest of the scenery and storyline.

Yea it would be rough at first, but I guarantee you that people are already role-playing this stuff without any of the computerized help.  So anything that can help move the game along and add to the immersive nature is a step forward.  Eventually it'll smooth out, in the same way that the original wireframe microsoft flight simulator has evolved to games like AH.  This is the next step in augmented reality and it's going to be awesome for gaming and entertainment parks.

Imagine when you enter disneyland, you're given a special set of glasses.  When you wear them, you see thousands of virtual objects, characters, and scenarios playing all around you.  Give mickey mouse a kick, and a huge animated cartoon boot comes along and steps on you, and your glasses go blank for 10 minutes.  Shake mickey's hand however, and mickey gives your kid a virtual coupon for half-price mickey mouse pancakes.  Look up, and see aladdin zooming around the sky, or dogfights from every era recreated in 3D right above you.

Read dream park and you'll get it.  Larry Niven.  Awesome book.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 10:27:17 PM »
How do you do stereo 3d.

How do you power the projector for long periods of time.

A projector strapped to your head is going to get heavy.

Augmented reality glasses are coming along nicely, projectors would be a giant step backwards.

eagl Microsoft really hasn't broken any new ground, there's been all sorts of stuff like those floating around for a bit.  Have a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i1NYVaYv8g

It's all a matter of time for the minaturization, and yea it doesn't look NEW so much as it has been integrated together.  The 3D surfaces in the room being fully interactive with the virtual objects, plus the player fully interactive with everything in both the real and virtual room, plus the multi-angle capture being integrated into a realtime 3D model of the real and virtual room...  That integration is new.

You don't strap the projector on your head, the projectors are either strategically placed around the room or behind translucent panels, or wherever is necessary to show the virtual objects and overlays.  And the virtual goggles can be no different than current heads-up displays.  Yea they're heavy now but you can buy 640p tv glasses for a couple hundred bucks and they're getting lighter and higher resolution all the time.

The gamer would need a small client computer, battery power source, and see-through VR "hud" glasses.  Making those 3D is easy since each eye will get it's own display.  They can be simple at first, monochrome or even 3-color lines or simple halos around significant objects to indicate allowable interactions.  Client computers do very little processing, mostly just enough to help the 3D sensors located around the room position each player a bit more accurately, transmit actions and interactions better, provide feedback (shocks when you take damage, pressure to virtual gloves, cues for various weapons, etc), otherwise all the real computing is based on what the 3D positioning and imaging sensors see the player doing.  The VR goggles simply display the overlays and virtual objects within the gaming space, and any projectors can be static or move only as necessary.  If the VR goggles are not available, then everything is done with projectors.  If the VR goggles are good enough, then projectors are not even needed.  Ideally though, the projectors would display what every player can see, and the goggles fill in the gaps with 3D depth and overlays that are specific to individual players (the trap that only the thief can see, etc).

One neat part about this video is that assuming the handheld projectors are truly portable (and I know the ones used in the video can be battery powered), a virtual world could be designed inside entire buildings, and the gamers could go literally anywhere in the building to play the game.  No new tech would be needed to do that, right now.  The batteries, computer, and projector would probably weigh 15ish lbs, but that's nothing compared to the many pounds current fantasy gamers lug often around when role playing, let alone what military members carry into combat nowadays.  Every room available to the gamers would need a few kinect sensors networked to the central gaming computer, and that's it.  The rest is either automated or the game master modifies the virtual objects on the fly based on gamer actions.

Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline curry1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2321
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 12:05:36 AM »
Damnit eagl all of you posts are always so full of interesting material but they are long.  You are the exception from tl;dr rule.
Curry1-Since Tour 101

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 06:40:05 AM »
Damnit eagl all of you posts are always so full of interesting material but they are long.  You are the exception from tl;dr rule.

Yea I go on too much sometimes.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline clerick

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1742
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 07:30:50 AM »
I want to turn my living room into a virtual P38 cockpit and the surrounding airspace!

Offline 4deck

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1520
      • (+) Precision
Re: Dream Park technology TODAY
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 08:36:45 AM »
 :O :O :aok
Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.