The Feel of the Arena

[Steven]

If you need a change, try out the Special Events.  Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays in my part of the world.

I agree, the MA isn't entirely my cup of tea and I would like to see a RPS of some sort whenever the plane-set is more fleshed out.  I've been flying the F4UD a lot lately along with some time in the P38 and I don't consider myself a very good stick but I constantly encounter LA7s, N1Ks and Spits who are flown many times by good sticks so I'm doubly in trouble and wary of engaging.  It is tough and not necessarily always enjoyable.  I hopped into a Spit9 a few times recently and was blown away by my kill ratio in that thing.  Other than being vulched twice in the Spit and diving for the ground and crashing to make a Special Event, my K/D ratio is way out of whack in the positive ledger in the Spit when compared to when I fly the Corsair and Lightning.  If we ever get Wildcats, which I'd love to fly, I'll never be able to do so in MA if the numbers of N1Ks and Spits do not diminish. Thus, I'm indirectly restricted from my favorite ride by you late-war flyer types.  Without some constraints, MA remains a 1944+ plane set with the option of suicide (if one so wishes) by taking up a Wildcat or Dauntless.

But I'm not here because I want things easy.  I prefer the challenge and I'm going to stick with my Corsair and a few of the other types for now.  In the future I'd like to see a rolling set but for now I make it a point to attend the Special Events as best I can and hope to see others make it a point to attend as well.

-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels

(Why can't we run out as a troop to shoot the paratroopers running to our maproom...it seems odd that the bases are ghost towns.)

[lazs1]

very true sw...  The addition of say just 2 or three early war planes in next version would make a very short (2-3 day) rps a viable thing tho.   Spit one, 109e maybe a p40 or f4f-3... we could build from there.. adjust the RPS according to popularity...  I don't really know how well it would go over.  we would find out soon enough... Maybe 1 day would be too much..  maybe a week would be too little.  who knows?  I don't think 3 new early war planes would be too much for the next version tho...
lazs

[Hangtime]

Hiya Popeye!

What I'm trying to get across is the MA system allows all planes on all sides.. and an RPS THERE don't make much sense, because we will have fewer planes doin the same old thing.. spittys vs spittys and 109's vs 109's..

An RPS is more suited to a HA in my feeble opinion because it will lock opposing countrys down to an appropriate plane type (axis vs allied, or LVVS vs LW or IJN vs USN) and do it on a reasonable timeline.

We don't have enuff planes yet to make a decent early war RPS, so a HA RPS would be limited to 1943 forward (for now) and an MA RPS would be un-fun because of the availablity of all planes to all flyers regardless of country the player is in.

I'm just not a spitty fan, or a zeke fan, or a f4f fan or a 109 fan... I don't begrudge the right of any pilot to fly what he wants; when he wants from wherever he wants in the MA... and an RPS in the MA would deny me access to the plane I want to fly when I want to fly it.

And RPS in the MA is exclusionary.. "Sorry, that plane is not available till Tuesday." That just don't cut it... not in the MA anyway.

I have horribly anti-RPS feelings about the MA.. I went thru the RPS system in WB's, before they had a HA, and as a result, they lost my buisness. I just didn't fly till the P51D became available, and my flying hours dropped dramaticly. I eventually just cancelled my account.

So; without stamping my feet and makin a big scene, lemme just say the RPS system DOES have a negative side, and it ain't 'the cure' for the late war aircraft population and it's fans.

Early war planes do best in a RPS.. and the place for THAT is in a HA, where spit 5 will face 109e and f, etc... not Spit 5 vs spit 5.

But thanks for askin Popeye!! <S!>

[AKSWulfe]

Hang, what if you had a P51 variant available during most of the tour? You would have the Mustang I in Feb, '42... maybe 4 days into the tour? I don't know how it would be scaled, I never flew WB when it had the RPS in effect so I'm guessing on the numbers here. Then you'd have a Mustang IA(150built) with four 20mm cannons instead of the 8 gun, 4 .50, 4 .303, but I'm not sure when that came out.

Anyway, you'd have a Mustang variant during the entire tour and that Mustang variant would be what the 'D' model is to the later war planes. Faster, better performance, etc.

Would that be an agreeable RPS system then? I'm just speculating of course, I have no idea when or if they would model earlier Mustangs.
-SW

[Steven]

Hang,

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What I'm trying to get across is the MA system allows all planes on all sides.. and an RPS THERE don't make much sense, because we will have fewer planes doin the same old thing.. spittys vs spittys and 109's vs 109's..
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I'm pretty sure we all understand you.  You are making statement that an RPS would limit the choices but still the people are going to grab the best plane available and all countries can choose them.  So we'd see the best P-40 or the best Wildcat in the air.  I have no problem with that.  I mean, we'd at least get to see them in the air then!  I don't get why that is a bad thing.

But you gotta understand, you dislike not being able to fly your P-51 if there are limitations...but on the flip-side, by your flying the P-51 and others flying N1Ks, LA7s and ME262s if we get that, those who want to fly the Wildcat or P-40 on occasion are pretty much relegated to being just a target...and that's really no fun.  But if people were limited for a few days to flying just P-40s, A6M2s and Wildcats and similar planes, then those who enjoy those airframes will at least have a chance to engage in their favorite rides without being highly underclassed.  I think the N1K and Pony fans can give us early-plane guys a few days out of the month when we get the planes, right?

I'm really having a tough time in the arenas now, to be honest.  In fact, I just flew two missions in the Dhog and got whacked by a Yak and a LA7.  I'm not that good, but even so...I can't do anything against those planes when in the F4U except run.  I got tired of running and decided to try a few things against a Yak...no cigar.  Against those planes, if I turn even a little bit, they can outturn me and I'll lose a lot of energy yet they accelerate like rockets compared to my F4U and can make up any loss of energy and I'll never regain like them.  I can only imagine who'd enjoy taking a P-40 or Wildcat up in that. I wouldn't think the enjoyment would last all that long either.

In essence, if you don't have a rolling plane set once we get a full war set of planes, that in itself restricts the enjoyment for some people and in all intents and purposes really restricts the aircraft we can take up and survive in let alone gain kills in.  That is, unless you and others promise to not shoot down my Wildcat in your P-51 so that I can fly the plane that I like and search around for something I can actually compete with.

-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels

[Hangtime]

Yup no doubt this is a tuffie.. no easy solution. Good to talk about it tho..

It's not unreasonable to want to fly your plane in an enviornment conducive to givin you a reasonable chance of survival..

Ok, lets look at it again.

 

But if people were limited for a few days to flying just P-40s, A6M2s and Wildcats and similar planes, then those who enjoy those airframes will at least have a chance to engage in their favorite rides without being highly underclassed.  

Sure; but do it in the HA. And as a bonus, you can fly your early-war plane against it's natural enemies. Insteada just goin cannibal with it in the MA.  

 

I think the N1K and Pony fans can give us early-plane guys a few days out of the month when we get the planes, right?
 

Jeeze; why just a few days?? I think a HA with and RPS and terrain switches weekly would give ya more than that.

 

I'm really having a tough time in the arenas now, to be honest. In fact, I just flew two missions in the Dhog and got whacked by a Yak and a LA7. I'm not that good, but even so...I can't do anything against those planes when in the F4U except run. I got tired of running and decided to try a few things against a Yak...no cigar.  

I know the feeling. My pony wouldn't last any longer than that Hawg did. And yer hawg and my pony together wouldn't have lasted 2 minutes aginst Mitsu inna Zeke or a 202 for that matter..  

 

In essence, if you don't have a rolling plane set once we get a full war set of planes, that in itself restricts the enjoyment for some people and in all intents and purposes really restricts the aircraft we can take up and survive in let alone gain kills in. That is, unless you and others promise to not shoot down my Wildcat in your P-51 so that I can fly the plane that I like and search around for something I can actually compete with.  

Well.. I can can certainly understand that the MA is a heluva deadly place, and I'd be willing to bet it will remain so, RPS or not, early and late war additions in the future or not. Still; I suspect you'd not dislike having a Historical Arena, Training Arena, Special Events Arena or Dueling Arena (and also the HTH arenas) where you could fly your fav plane in an enviornment that suits your mood while not restricting the access of others to the planes they wish to fly[/i]

Look I don't wanna deny anybody anything; and I think the game's doin a pretty good job of trying to give as many of us as possible as much as possible. I'd find an RPS in the MA to be a restriction.. I'd be in a plane I would not have chosen otherwise, rather than what I wanted to fly... Kinda like havin to drive a hundai like the resta these lemmings on the highway because if I was allowed to drive my jeep; and one of those guys fediddleed up in front of me and I hit him; I might kill him.  

HA and RPS.. hell yes.. MA and RPS... nope. But, thats just my opinion. I could be wrong.

  <S!>

[Rude]

Laz...quit it

To turn and burn in the MA and die....well, if dyin is your thing.

I just love the guys who tell others how to fly...I do believe you may have a case of the BIG head, and are just jealous of more skilled and handsome lads such as those in the 13th TAS.

Ugly....real ugly laz.

Next time your online, try and say hi or somethin...it should feel better to get killed by those your friendly with...I would think

[Steven]

Hangtime,

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Yup no doubt this is a tuffie.. no easy solution. Good to talk about it tho..
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I agree.  Good that we can disagree without taking to flames

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Sure; but do it in the HA. And as a bonus, you can fly your early-war plane against it's natural enemies. Insteada just goin cannibal with it in the MA.
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I can say the same thing in reverse back to you.  You can fly your late-war models in the HA and against similarly deadly enemies.  Maybe even have a late-war HA when the MA is in an early plane set.  Like you state, there are no easy answers here and you can never please everyone at all times.  However, the HA as it now stands is very restricted and a player can't just up in a plane looking for a fight.  That's what MA is for.  

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while not restricting the access of others to the planes they wish to fly
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That's just the thing.  Without a RPS it does deny some their favorite ride.  Again, we are being premature about this because the plane set as it stands does not need anything like this yet.  But when it's more fleshed out, there may be amends needed for the fans of the early hardware.  And to be honest, the HA's are very few and probably wouldn't have a Wildcat type scenario more than once per week if that.  And so you know, I do make it a point to put make the HA my priority in Aces High.

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I'd find an RPS in the MA to be a restriction.. I'd be in a plane I would not have chosen otherwise, rather than what I wanted to fly
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But it's the same thing in reverse.  Tonight, after dying too many times in my big, slow, heavy, hates-to-turn Hog, I finally grabbed a 51D just so I can compete and I was able to get a few kills and it was fun.  However, because of what's being flown out there, I was restricted from flying my Hog or P38.  It ends up being the same thing.

This reminds me of a quote from a song...

"And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe and saw."  

There is no easy answer, I'll agree to that.  Good we can all talk about it though and state our concerns.  Take care.

-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels

[AKDejaVu]

Whether or not to have an RPS is somewhat of a moot point.  Its going to have to happen sooner or later.  I believe there is a limit on the number of planes that are going to occupy one arena at a time.  64 seems to be a number that HT has thrown my way before <please correct me if I'm wrong on that one>.  Right now, we are at 50.  Of course, we can only have 63 total planes because one will always be a chute

I guess the question really becomes "how is it done" or "is two arenas better".  One thing is given:  The MA cannot have all airplanes HTC develops on at the same time <after a certain point>.

AKDejaVu

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
The MA cannot have all airplanes HTC develops on at the same time <after a certain point>.

I thought this was the limit in WB, but Pyro said he could remove the upper limit by changing the value that the max is set to?

Right now we have 50 planes... probably only about 20 of them are seeing extensive use though.
-SW

[Vermillion]

I know I haven't been around much lately, but I gotta jump into this one.  

No RPS... No, NO.... NO RPS.........no..no..no...NO, NO , and NO again !!!!

Just say NO to a RPS!

 

[lazs1]

hang... suppose we said that we wanted late war mustangs restricted  to the HA and told you that it was for your own good because you would be able to fly em against "historic" enemy's( all 3-4 guys at peak hours)...   I like some kind of RPS but I hate axis vs allied.   What is the big deal?  so 2 or three early war planes would be maybe twice as popular as the rest...  Isn't that the case in the current MA with spits and niks?   steven has hit it right on the head.  

I have suggested a mustang 1,  bet you'd like  it.   other than that... I will concede that early war is not as popular as mid war but.... late war is not as popular as mid war either..  late war is being "forced" on most right now tho while early is being "forced" out...  I see nothing wrong with a few days at the beggining of the tour for early war planes to fight each other in a viable arena without axis vs allied roadkill.

rude don't know how handsome 13tas guys are.. never get close enough to tell.   not fond of your 'leader' tho but that is old toejam..   not real fond of squad planes and tactics in the ma that take advantage of the lack of an rps either but that's the way it is.  I doubt that you would be all that fond of a LW squad that employed your tactics in the MA in 262's either.  I really think that you guys are helping to point out the need for an RPS of some type but also feel that it is inevitable in any case.  Oh... and did i just get accused of having a "big head" by a 13tas guy?   I'm sure the irony of that is not lost on BB readers.
lazs

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: lazs1 ]

[AKDejaVu]

I thought this was the limit in WB, but Pyro said he could remove the upper limit by changing the value that the max is set to?

They can change the value.. or number of planes.. but its going to affect framerate and minimum vid memory requirements.

Think back (not that long ago) to the backpeddaling that HS did over at brand X in regards to the number of planes they'd have in WB3.  Same rules still aply.

AKDejaVu

[AKSWulfe]

Right, but the limit isn't 64 planes total inside the program... but only 64 planes can be displayed on each users FE at any one time.

So it all depends on how many different planes YOU see, right?
-SW

[popeye]

Hang,

Thanks for taking time to clarify.  Though I don't like to limit myself to one plane, I can appreciate your preference.  However, ask yourself if you would feel the same way about the RPS, if we had unrestricted access to Tempest, Me-262, F8F, Spit XIV, and F4u-4.  This is the sort of environment, relative to fans of the P-51D, that the the current MA is to fans of early war planes now.

Tough problem, with no easy solution.