What AP Ammo is used in our Hispano

[ACE]

our hispano/other cannon rounds are AP/HE mixed together i believe.

Krusty beat you no need for post count ups

[bustr]

Maybe the current version of ammo in the game is a blessing in disguise to promote players not complaining about over modeled ammo damage. Considering the strength of the under modeled complaints. We are lucky the Mauser Mk213 never made it into the war. Our 30mm tater at 1000M/sec 1300 rounds per minute. I seem to recall watching a modern test firing of a 50 cal AP round that passed through a cinder block and I think 1/2inch of steel plate 16 inches past the cinder block with no tumbling.

I suppose most of this audience read the analysis I linked befor commenting. I guess the british didn't issue much AP ammo for their fighters as the article asserts? Or maybe it was in a single theater and year. India/Burma 1942. By 1943 the MkIII AP got almost 2X the penetration based on the first linked article. That 50 cal AP ammo in the 1942 report is no shrinking violet itself. Wasen't the RA/40 AP ammo pretty much the browning 50 cal standard ammo for the Allies in WW2?

So one could infer from the posters in this thread that our ammo in the game is some kind of averaged HE cluge based on a static number power table and this british ww2 document is so much diddly pooh? At least its all a consitant cluge.

[skorpion]

Krusty beat you no need for post count ups

you think i read what krusty writes?

[AWwrgwy]

you think i read what krusty writes?

I'm led to believe you read little of what anyone writes and comprehend even less.



wrongway

[RTHolmes]

 

[ACE]

Lol

[Tank-Ace]

Wrong.

You went through a normal discussion and pulled your false claims to promote an anti-GV-icon agenda that had no place in this thread to begin with.

Krusty, when you have real life expierence flying in a 300mph aircraft 1-2k AGL, trying to spot a tank pained in a color(s) that blend in with the background, AND is sitting in a dense stand of trees, then, and ONLY then, can you say hes wrong.

Think you would notice this doing 300mph?


Or this guy?


Spot the tank?


Would you be able to see this crafty SOB?

[Tank-Ace]

To the OP:

IMO, this would make make the hispanos over-powered. They would (theoreticly)  make every Hispano-armed plane a GV buster. The F4U-C, and Typhoon in particular could be nightmares, depending on how many 20mm rounds HTC decides it would take to kill a Panzer IV...

[save]

Krusty , do YOU know what you are talking about ??
I  i've spent more time in a tank than most in here (20 years on and off in the swedish army, also did I have a pilots certificate for just about 20 years.
Its me in the commanders cupola in picture below



I know exactly what I talking about about spotting tanks from tanks and tanks from airplanes.

It has nothing to do what I think about GV'ing in here or not, we are talking what have any sense of realism
Where you get your information about tankspotting from is beyond me.

[Squire]

Well untill HTC says what they are we just don't know. If I had to guess (and thats all it is) I would say they use HE ammo for all the aircraft cannons in game.

There is a color photo of 439 Sqn RCAF Typhoon being armed in March 1945 I have where the description states the load is 20mm belts loaded with 2 rounds HE/I and 2 rounds SAP/I alternating on the belt (a pair and a pair) being loaded into an operational fighter prior to a sortie. All that says is that squadron used that mix on that mission though and that both types could be made available. What a Burma Spitfire VIII loaded in 1945 typically? or a 1942 Hurricane IIc in Malta? who the heck knows.

As far as the "typical" loads for the 20mm Hispano? You are talking about a gun that was used from 1941-45 in the ETO, MED, CBI and PACIFIC in day fighters, night fighters, ground attack fighter-bombers and anti-ship wings vs the Germans, Italians and Japanese. Trying to determine a "standard" belting would be next to impossible. There would have been im sure a good quantity of both HE and AP ammunition types for the units. Arming tactics would be to the task at hand I would think much like most other countries air combat units during the war. 

[SmokinLoon]

Well untill HTC says what they are we just don't know. If I had to guess (and thats all it is) I would say they use HE ammo for all the aircraft cannons in game.

There is a color photo of 439 Sqn RCAF Typhoon being armed in March 1945 I have where the description states the load is 20mm belts loaded with 2 rounds HE/I and 2 rounds SAP/I alternating on the belt (a pair and a pair) being loaded into an operational fighter prior to a sortie. All that says is that squadron used that mix on that mission though and that both types could be made available. What a Burma Spitfire VIII loaded in 1945 typically? or a 1942 Hurricane IIc in Malta? who the heck knows.

As far as the "typical" loads for the 20mm Hispano? You are talking about a gun that was used from 1941-45 in the ETO, MED, CBI and PACIFIC in day fighters, night fighters, ground attack fighter-bombers and anti-ship wings vs the Germans, Italians and Japanese. Trying to determine a "standard" belting would be next to impossible. There would have been im sure a good quantity of both HE and AP ammunition types for the units. Arming tactics would be to the task at hand I would think much like most other countries air combat units during the war. 

If I were a gamblin' man, and I'm not really, but if I were and pilots had a say in what their 20mm cannons were armed with I'd be willing to be the fighters would load up all HE, and the attack aircraft such as the Typhoon and Mossi, would load up a mix of HE and AP.  The attack aircraft went after both soft and hard targets so they knew having a mix would be good.  The fighters knew their targets were other aircraft so needing to be able to bust through armor was not much of a consideration. 

[Krusty]

Aces High is not modeling tanks 100% covered and immobile so that they are invisible.


Aces High models open field mobile tank combat. We're not talking "buried up to the barrel in snow to hide it" ... we're not talking "They don't want to be bombed when they're not being used..."

We're talking "Let's storm the objectives, guns blazing!"

Spot the tank?



This one's REALLY hard to spot, give it a minute, you'll find it!



What Sherman?


When you get to the desert it's REALLY tricky... They blend in SO well, even when sand-color paint is used!




Don't post some BS example where the tank is so dug in it's immobile and of no use other than a stationary line of defense. Post a real combat example, then let's talk.


P.S. Let me add an edit here. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you're wrong in the context of Aces High. This is first and foremost a game promoting combat, not combat AVOIDANCE. We don't have cloaking sheilds on our fighter planes. We don't have invisibility fields over our bombers. In both cases fighters and bombers could very well sneak right past an enemy fighter without being seen. The point isn't that they should be hidden.

The point is that, given the planes and the setup, you use your own skills to stay alive. In tanking for AH that means don't sit under a giant furball of fighters and jabos. You shouldn't be invisible to them if you decide to. Darwinism of the tankers -- you go out in the middle of a hostile zone you'll be attacked. You stay under cover or skirt the aerial action, you'll be fine.

[skorpion]

Aces High is not modeling tanks 100% covered and immobile so that they are invisible.


Aces High models open field mobile tank combat. We're not talking "buried up to the barrel in snow to hide it" ... we're not talking "They don't want to be bombed when they're not being used..."

We're talking "Let's storm the objectives, guns blazing!"

Spot the tank?

(Image removed from quote.)

This one's REALLY hard to spot, give it a minute, you'll find it!

(Image removed from quote.)

What Sherman?
(Image removed from quote.)

When you get to the desert it's REALLY tricky... They blend in SO well, even when sand-color paint is used!

(Image removed from quote.)


Don't post some BS example where the tank is so dug in it's immobile and of no use other than a stationary line of defense. Post a real combat example, then let's talk.


P.S. Let me add an edit here. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you're wrong in the context of Aces High. This is first and foremost a game promoting combat, not combat AVOIDANCE. We don't have cloaking sheilds on our fighter planes. We don't have invisibility fields over our bombers. In both cases fighters and bombers could very well sneak right past an enemy fighter without being seen. The point isn't that they should be hidden.

The point is that, given the planes and the setup, you use your own skills to stay alive. In tanking for AH that means don't sit under a giant furball of fighters and jabos. You shouldn't be invisible to them if you decide to. Darwinism of the tankers -- you go out in the middle of a hostile zone you'll be attacked. You stay under cover or skirt the aerial action, you'll be fine.

Krusty, we do have cover from trees/bushes/buildings ect...


i think the original intention wasnt about being right out there in the open and being visible to all. Look at the second pic Tank-Ace put up, you can see the sherman hiding behind a building, kind of like people do in AH. of course its not covered in rubble but you should have easily spotted it. Thats an example of using the buildings for cover in AH.

[Krusty]

No... We have trees and some shrubs... Look at the "clever SOB" image... If that were modeled in AH, you know what we'd have? A giant porcupine sticking out of a flat terrain.

AH doesn't have ditches, draw, gulleys, ravines, natural land formations you can just roll a tank up to and remain mostly hidden except for the gun barrel. We don't model all the millions of natural real-world elements that conceal your location (sometimes) in the real world. This is not a ground combat simulator. They were tacked on as an afterthought, almost. They've developed into a fun part of the game, but by no means is it very realistic.

Again, it's trying to interject a no-icons request into a thread totally unrelated to it. If you set up a wirble  in real life like we have in AH, put it in open fields where it's firing at you, put it near trees, buildings, of similar size and shape as AH has, and there's no damn way you'll miss it.

You want camouflage, take it to the wishlist forum. Don't go claiming GVs ought to be invisible to planes just because you don't like being bombed. (I say this to "You all" not just "you" -- as it's a common thread in all these GV icon threads)

[skorpion]

No... We have trees and some shrubs... Look at the "clever SOB" image... If that were modeled in AH, you know what we'd have? A giant porcupine sticking out of a flat terrain.

AH doesn't have ditches, draw, gulleys, ravines, natural land formations you can just roll a tank up to and remain mostly hidden except for the gun barrel. We don't model all the millions of natural real-world elements that conceal your location (sometimes) in the real world. This is not a ground combat simulator. They were tacked on as an afterthought, almost. They've developed into a fun part of the game, but by no means is it very realistic.

Again, it's trying to interject a no-icons request into a thread totally unrelated to it. If you set up a wirble  in real life like we have in AH, put it in open fields where it's firing at you, put it near trees, buildings, of similar size and shape as AH has, and there's no damn way you'll miss it.

You want camouflage, take it to the wishlist forum. Don't go claiming GVs ought to be invisible to planes just because you don't like being bombed. (I say this to "You all" not just "you" -- as it's a common thread in all these GV icon threads)

tell me when the last time was, when you saw a tank hiding behind a building without aid of an icon? i guarantee if that icon was off you would have completely missed it.