This is why you tie planes down lol

[colmbo]

You can't expect everyone to make their own, I think most people will just listen to the POH.

I think the main cause of this was the lack of tie down, the control lock did have a part in it but it was minor and I don't know whether or not the airplane would have stayed down if the control lock kept the elevators straight or down.

Even if it had been tied down having the elevator "up" as it was is a bad thing.  The airplane will be trying to fly which puts big loads on the tiedown rings and via them to the wing structure.  The elevator should be in a slightly "down" elevator position.  This will reduce AOA with a head wind and push the tail down with a tail wind.

If you can afford to spend a boat load of money to buy the airplane you should spend the time/money to take care of it.  For high wind areas external control locks are the only safe method of securing the control surfaces other than putting the airplane in a hangar.  With internal control locks unless they are very well designed and built there is still a lot of play in the control surface, that play translates into stress/wear on the control system.

We get a lot of wind in Alaska --- earlier this week winds peaked at 90 knots where my boat is docked.  I've seen a lot of airplanes damaged and destroyed by wind.

[MachFly]

Even if it had been tied down having the elevator "up" as it was is a bad thing.  The airplane will be trying to fly which puts big loads on the tiedown rings and via them to the wing structure.  The elevator should be in a slightly "down" elevator position.  This will reduce AOA with a head wind and push the tail down with a tail wind.

If you can afford to spend a boat load of money to buy the airplane you should spend the time/money to take care of it.  For high wind areas external control locks are the only safe method of securing the control surfaces other than putting the airplane in a hangar.  With internal control locks unless they are very well designed and built there is still a lot of play in the control surface, that play translates into stress/wear on the control system.

We get a lot of wind in Alaska --- earlier this week winds peaked at 90 knots where my boat is docked.  I've seen a lot of airplanes damaged and destroyed by wind.

I agree. The thing is that a lot of people just listen to the POH and use the seat belt. When the company originality makes an airplane they should make a good control lock for it.

[Golfer]

New off the line ~$11M Lear 45s come with a few feet of cinch strap as a control lock. Lash the rudder pedals together looping over the yoke.  Simple solution.

While Bombardier probably charges $300 for a replacement you can get the same thing from Harbor Freight for about $5.

I'll have to look at the parts catalog since I'm curious what they'd actually charge.

[MachFly]

New off the line ~$11M Lear 45s come with a few feet of cinch strap as a control lock. Lash the rudder pedals together looping over the yoke.  Simple solution.

While Bombardier probably charges $300 for a replacement you can get the same thing from Harbor Freight for about $5.

I'll have to look at the parts catalog since I'm curious what they'd actually charge.

It's not fly-by-wire?

[colmbo]

A friend of mine is the only guy I've heard of to land a Twin Otter after an inflight elevator bell crank failure.  It seems this problem has occured on a few occasions, high winds bash the elevator about damaging the bearing/mount for one of the elevator bell cranks in the tail.  There have been fatal crashes.

For him he had just taken off with 7 pax, in the initial climb he felt something break and the yoke went forward against the panel as the airplane pitched up.  As the airplane started to buffet he decided he was NOT going to spin down onto the Kotzebue airport so he pulled the power off to get the nose down.  A bit of tweaking the power found a setting that got him controlled level flight.  Some radio traffic occured, he went around the pattern and landed.  Did I mention the wind gusting over 30knots?  Andy is cool as they come, he's flying 747s now.

(I also know a guy that did a night, NDB approach while IMC in a DC-3 -- deadstick.

[flight17]

It's not fly-by-wire?

even if it was that doesnt stop the controls from moving. FBW is just removing the mechanical linkage from the control column and replacing it with a electrical wire that runs from the main flight computer to the control surfaces which they activate electric servos/pumps.

But to answer your question, no, the Lear 45 is not FBW.

[MachFly]

even if it was that doesnt stop the controls from moving. FBW is just removing the mechanical linkage from the control column and replacing it with a electrical wire that runs from the main flight computer to the control surfaces which they activate electric servos/pumps.

But to answer your question, no, the Lear 45 is not FBW.

As far as I know when you have FBW and the computer is off the controls will be locked in place, so you would have no need for a control lock. Have you ever seen a single (modern) FBW aircraft with gust locks?

Roger about the Learjet. I take it the controls are hydraulically boosted then?

[MachFly]

A friend of mine is the only guy I've heard of to land a Twin Otter after an inflight elevator bell crank failure.  It seems this problem has occured on a few occasions, high winds bash the elevator about damaging the bearing/mount for one of the elevator bell cranks in the tail.  There have been fatal crashes.

For him he had just taken off with 7 pax, in the initial climb he felt something break and the yoke went forward against the panel as the airplane pitched up.  As the airplane started to buffet he decided he was NOT going to spin down onto the Kotzebue airport so he pulled the power off to get the nose down.  A bit of tweaking the power found a setting that got him controlled level flight.  Some radio traffic occured, he went around the pattern and landed.  Did I mention the wind gusting over 30knots?  Andy is cool as they come, he's flying 747s now.

(I also know a guy that did a night, NDB approach while IMC in a DC-3 -- deadstick.

So he was controlling the pitch with power alone? Did he use flaps to help make immediate pitch changes?

[colmbo]

So he was controlling the pitch with power alone? Did he use flaps to help make immediate pitch changes?

Yes, power to control pitch.  He didn't touch the flaps.  Once he got it stabilized he didn't want to mess with it.

[cpxxx]

Same thing happened to a Cessna 150 Aerobat, I had a share in. It had big lumps of concrete tying it down but away it flew. It was repaired and flew again but found itself upside down once more after some clot ran it out of fuel. That finished it finally. It had quite an eventful career, a student pilot once flew it through a tree and survived. It even appeared in a Paul Newman movie.

It also happened to a Cessna 182 skydive aircraft I used to fly.

At the time we were advised that an excellent way to prevent the wings providing lift in high winds was to place sandbags on top of the wing. Breaks the airflow. Of course if the aircraft is light enough, it will just be blown away by the sheer force of the wind.

[MachFly]

Yes, power to control pitch.  He didn't touch the flaps.  Once he got it stabilized he didn't want to mess with it.

Roger, makes seance.

[MachFly]

(I also know a guy that did a night, NDB approach while IMC in a DC-3 -- deadstick.

He lost both engines?

So did he glide the whole approach? That's amazing.

[ebfd11]

All I can say is 'WHOOPS"

[colmbo]

He lost both engines?

So did he glide the whole approach? That's amazing.

It's not like he had a lot of choice, carb icing I think was the issue.  He was flying for Sal Air I think over Washington state.  Big snow storm, luckily when they quit he was over a little uncontrolled field that had an NDB approach.  I didn't like NDB approaches on warm, sunny days with the engine running.

He's one of the guys that flew the B-17 and B-24.  To look at him you'd never think he'd be allowed in an airplane, let alone fly one.  Just goes to show you can't judge a book by the cover -- he's one of those guys I'd want to be with when things go wrong.

[MachFly]

It's not like he had a lot of choice, carb icing I think was the issue.  He was flying for Sal Air I think over Washington state.  Big snow storm, luckily when they quit he was over a little uncontrolled field that had an NDB approach.  I didn't like NDB approaches on warm, sunny days with the engine running.

He's one of the guys that flew the B-17 and B-24.  To look at him you'd never think he'd be allowed in an airplane, let alone fly one.  Just goes to show you can't judge a book by the cover -- he's one of those guys I'd want to be with when things go wrong.

That's some good glide planning.