unexpected 1st aid for dogs

[VonMessa]

why the heck would someone have the nerve to take the time to bait their perfectly great food and mix it w coolant and put it outside?

This is the predominant question.

I also feel no need or desire to impress you.  

The screenshot is of a hair less than a square mile.  The airstrip is bigger than the entire village.  You can see how tightly packed the houses are.  How much "land" do you really think each villager "owns"?  In most cases you can open your front door, take a leak and be pissing on your neighbors "land".  The accessibility of one neighbors trash is only a matter of a few feet.

Most folks in the lower 48 have no idea of how important or integral dogs are in the Inuit culture.  They are friend, co-worker, transportation, portable heater, fellow hunter and family member all rolled into one.  

It goes way beyond "keeping your animal on your own land", especially in such a close-knit communal setting as this one.  There is a reason that the village is so huddled together.  These folks share their food, resources, animals, fuel in an attempt to survive the harsh conditions and to perpetuate their culture and way of life.  They survive and thrive, together.  This is just something that is not looked upon favorably, just as pouring Diesel fuel in the village well would not be.  

A (to be nice) mistake like this could spell disaster, not just for your closest neighbor, but has the potential to impact the entire village, not to mention if anyone's children had gotten into it.

Lastly, if the litigious angle of this situation were to be discussed, I wonder what the EPA's opinion would be of someone discarding anti-freeze in the common trash...


EDIT:  Just to add.  This is not a bustling city with a population of thousands.  Last Census count was a whopping 313 citizens...

Also to be fair to Greens and not generalize or stereotype, I believe I recall him saying that his village was actually founded by the Malemiut Inupiat Eskimos and was actually formerly known as the village of Nuviakchak, but he can correct me if I am wrong  

[mbailey]

+1 VM


Howdy Greens, just curious, with it being a couple of days later, hows your dog?

[Ack-Ack]

Howdy Greens, just curious, with it being a couple of days later, hows your dog?

probably has one hell of a hang over.

ack-ack

[Groth]

 You HAVE to be joking...
 YOU live in PHILLIE and you say this...
 Tell me, if you own a horse in Phillie, and don't have any aceage..it's OK..according to you..to let it run free a couple hours a nite?  Maybe the 60+ lb dog you own...right?
 If you think you need to own an animal..YOU need to feed it, groom it, vet it...walk it..not your neighbors problem..
 IF the OP didn't contact police..the question remains un-answered..why not? Outstanding warrants? Not supposed to own a dog? Not supposed to let dogs you own run wild?
 Be resposible for yourself and yours.

[DREDIOCK]

Not too impressed, Von....
 If it's YOUR animal, and you truly care about it...keep it on YOUR property...don't give a flip if it IS alaska...
 Most states stipulate if you can't keep your stock(which most states put dogs in that catagory) on your own property..said stock becomes property of landowner were said stock couldn't(or more likely wouldn't) be kept off of....
 Meaning that said landowner killed his own animal. Have had more than a little involvement in this arguement.
 If you've got an arguement why someone needn't keep their animal on their own land..let's hear it.
 If you think someone's dog should wander were-ever it feels, let's hear the arguement..
 Surely you know dogs suffer from 'pack mentallity' and should not be allowed free access to public land..right?
 You really think the OP doesn't know this also? Really?

 

You never had a dog escape? get out of the yard. Slip out of the house on occasion despite your best attempts?
I have a dog that for a couple of weeks kept getting out of the house  after I left for work and running the neighborhood before we found out what was going on through a neighbor. Seems the dog had figured out how to open our back door. For that time we would come home and sometimes the door would be open and we were yelling at each other and the kids for not closing the door after letting the dogs out in the morning.
What we found out was happening was after the last one of us left. she would open the door and jump the fence that we had installed specifically to keep her IN the yard. she would run around the neighborhood all day then 20 minutes before my wife got home she would come back. Hop the fence again and come back inside as though nothing had happened.  We found it hard to beleive until one day we were sitting there and something went on outside that attracted the dogs attention and we both witnessed the dog opening the door and running outside.

Now because we try to be responsible pet owners we lock the door when we leave and put her on a leash that is bolted to the house when we let her out. but still. occasionally someone will forget to lock the door and she will occasionally get out.
and for that you think its ok for you or a neighbor to kill her?

Your line of reasoning is pure BS.

[DREDIOCK]

With Mav on this one. I love dogs and have had several since very small.
 I live in the 'country'..roaming dogs are a problem that locals will not tolerate... the dogs tend to 'disapear'.
 IF you really love your pet, keep it on your property. I have been braced up by a small pack of dogs after coming home in the dark..the big one that snarled and faced me down is no more...his bros fled..he had a collar. No owner ID or I would of paid a vist. I'm sure he was very loveable and wonderful at home.
 If you feel your dog has aright to roam on others property, I'd be interested in your argument...
 Groth

had this same discussion here a few months ago. Locals typically dont tolerate it because of the claim of a rabies problem. These people are mostly ignorant of the facts.
Among all the animals you may come across on your property. Dogs are by far the least likely to have rabies. Cats by comparison are more then 8 times more likely to be carriers of rabies then dogs. But I bet not to many of them "disappear".
Reasons being people are more likely to bring a dog in for its shots then cats and cats tend to try and catch and kill as often as not successfully the very animals most likely to carry rabies.

While paranoia about rabies may not be completely unfounded. The object of their ire for that reason is.

As I also mentioned. If you know your neighbors at all. You know what animals belong to them by sight. You know what animals are local and you can typically tell by sight what animals are taken care of and which ones may be Ferrel or free roaming with no owner. there is no legitimate need or excuse to just kill an animal simply for being on your property legal or not. Particularly if you know its indigenous to your area and belongs to your neighbor.

And if you know it belongs to your neighbor. You damn well know it doesnt have rabies or if its aggressive or not. So again. There is no legitimate excuse to kill it.

Fortunately I live in a place where people are more neighborly and civilized to one another. My largest concern is my dogs dont get hit by a car if they get out. My new retriever has shown no inclination to want to wander so he isnt a concern. but other then that my only worries are that I might have to bail the dog out from the pound  and/or get fined. though more then likely which has happend on one occasion about a month ago when my son didnt lock the door. I got a call from the neighbor around the block that my dog was out and she had it at her house tied in the yard for me.
certainly a more classy act then offing her
Though if I were in your area and my animals started turning up dead or missing. Im afraid some of the neighbors would turn up "missing" as well.
At best. someone would be getting hurt. very very badly.

[Maverick]

I didn't see any mention of rabies until your post Dred. I don't think that was the issue.

So far the question is still unanswered. Was the dog poisoned on the original posters property or did he get on someone else's property and get into it?

As I stated before if the bait was placed on the OP's property he needs to call the local Police and file a complaint. If the dog got into it on someone else's property it is the dog owner that has the problem.

VonMessa
The teary eyed bit about a child getting it it was a nice straw man. Why would a kid, supposedly old enough to be able to roam the neighborhood unsupervised, not know enough not to eat meat left outside, especially not in his yard. Is eating unknown meat left out in the open a real kid problem in your neighborhood? Or village? Do your people not feed their kids enough that they HAVE to scavenge road kill or trash in the surrounding area? 

[DREDIOCK]

I didn't see any mention of rabies until your post Dred. I don't think that was the issue.

So far the question is still unanswered. Was the dog poisoned on the original posters property or did he get on someone else's property and get into it?

As I stated before if the bait was placed on the OP's property he needs to call the local Police and file a complaint. If the dog got into it on someone else's property it is the dog owner that has the problem.

Sorry if Im jumping ot conclusions. But the most common line of reasoning I see used to off other peoples dogs for being on their property is the possibility of rabies.
While possible and at one time was a legitimate argument. Its simply doesnt hold up as well anymore. It is far more likely for you to see just about any other animal on your property with rabies then you will a dog.

[VonMessa]

I didn't see any mention of rabies until your post Dred. I don't think that was the issue.

So far the question is still unanswered. Was the dog poisoned on the original posters property or did he get on someone else's property and get into it?

As I stated before if the bait was placed on the OP's property he needs to call the local Police and file a complaint. If the dog got into it on someone else's property it is the dog owner that has the problem.

VonMessa
The teary eyed bit about a child getting it it was a nice straw man. Why would a kid, supposedly old enough to be able to roam the neighborhood unsupervised, not know enough not to eat meat left outside, especially not in his yard. Is eating unknown meat left out in the open a real kid problem in your neighborhood? Or village? Do your people not feed their kids enough that they HAVE to scavenge road kill or trash in the surrounding area?  

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

I do not think that word means what you think it means





Call the police?
You mean the one that is also the dog catcher, fire chief and safety officer?

       

http://www.hulu.com/watch/207463/alaska-state-troopers-10-dollar-milk-in-elim

I think that most folks in the lower 48 have no idea the completely alien lifestyle that folks in isolated parts of the US lead...

[Shuffler]

probably has one hell of a hang over.

ack-ack

I heard he was checked into the Betty Ford Clinic.

[Delirium]

If the bait was placed on your property you need to call the Police and file a complaint. If it was on the neighbors property, you need to keep your dog on yours.

+1

I've never poisoned any domestic animals, but if Animal Control couldn't solve the problem and my kids were too afraid to play outside because of loose dogs, I might have done the same on MY property.

[The Jekyll]

I recall when I lived in Alaska most people simply shot the dog on their property if it wasn't theirs; no questions asked, no warnings need be given. The neighbor was free to come pick em up or let em winter over until break up. No need to use a poison, waste of good anti-freeze which can be hard to come by in remote villages. Bullets are much easier, more humane, and cheaper.

[Maverick]

Vonmessa,

IIRC you brought up a person getting into the bait. That fits the straw man situation as you are taking the situation and really stretching it with that. Frankly, I don't see folks even in Alaska walking over to another persons property and eating meat that was left outside. Don't agree, then fine. But I also recall that greens was the OP with this issue and instead of him speaking for himself you seem to have appointed yourself spokesman for him. Now if you are his daddy, mommy or older sibling I could see that. Does that situation fit your relationship to greens? If not, why don't you let him answer questions for himself instead of speaking for him? So far I only see the original post from him with anything of substance to it.

[greens]

I aint got time to be flamed n put down by ppl who have their own opinion on what they like dont like or who they dont like or do like. growup if you do not like someone, growup. just dont type anything if you dont have anything nice to say. keep your whining n crybaby antics to yourself.
here in the remote villages of alaska ya their is a property line just like you folks down states or wherever you reside, but when it comes to dogs and ppl who love their dogs, you dont kust bait your leftover food with poison n purposely put it outside your door. hell i bet if i baited a 55 galllon drum of beer w poison at a house next to a other party going on id get some flak for that wouldnt I? sheesh. ppl need to growup on their own opinions. <S> dogowners greens

[VonMessa]

Vonmessa,

IIRC you brought up a person getting into the bait. That fits the straw man situation as you are taking the situation and really stretching it with that. Frankly, I don't see folks even in Alaska walking over to another persons property and eating meat that was left outside. Don't agree, then fine. But I also recall that greens was the OP with this issue and instead of him speaking for himself you seem to have appointed yourself spokesman for him. Now if you are his daddy, mommy or older sibling I could see that. Does that situation fit your relationship to greens? If not, why don't you let him answer questions for himself instead of speaking for him? So far I only see the original post from him with anything of substance to it.

I say what I say because I have been to villages like the one he lives in and it is as much as a different way of life as living on Mars would be for most people.

Dogs, like children occasionally do not do exactly what you say 100% of the time.  They get out, they jump the fence, but sometimes the unexpected happens.  I fully understand controlling your animal.  What I don't understand is why the neighbor would not say something first. 

Poisoning any animal is about the most cowardice act someone could do and unless I am wrong, there was no mention of whether or not Greens' dog was the target of the poisoning.  It could have been meant for any variety of animal or varmint  that would smell it or get into it.  In the state parks around here, there are signs all over about packing out your trash and keeping food in air-tight containers because of the bears.  Of course animals are going to be attracted to and pilfer your trash can if they can smell it.

What I see is a lazy-assed neighbor that doesn't seem very concerned about properly disposing of his trash.