Author Topic: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21  (Read 899 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« on: December 03, 2011, 03:04:39 AM »
The SdKfz 251/22 is an SdKfz 251 with a PaK 40 mounted ontop of the vehicle. 22 rounds of ammunition were carried.

Why should this be added? What would it give us over the M3(75)?

1) it would provide us with a free, mobile, and easily concealed, if very easily destroyed, vehicle capable of effeciently engaging enemy tanks at long range.

2) it would be a good proof-of-concept vehicle for turretless tank destroyers, better than the M3, because its speed is closer to that of other turretless tank destroyers, so manuverability and speed will not greatly affect their preformance, giving us a clear picture of how effective such vehicles would be. This would open the door for the Jagdpanzer and Jagdpanther, the Su-85 and Su-100, the StuG, the Su-76, and the Nashorn.

3) it would be a relativly easy addition, since all existing components are in the game. It would require adding/updating some graphics, reworking the center of gravity and weight for the vehicle, and not a whole lot else.

4) it would be fun for its own sake. You could pull it up inside of an undestroyed barn, and you would basicly be untoucable. They couldn't see you, they couldn't hit you, odds are they probably won't know where the fire is coming from untill they're already dead.


The SdKfz 251/21 was an SdKfz 251 with 3 20mm Mg 151/20s mounted in a tripple turret on top of the vehicle. What would we get over the wirblewind with this?

1) a powerfully armed AA vehicle thats capable of keeping up with fast tanks such as the T-34's and the Panther, which would allow GV's to work with better (if admittedly still wanting) AA protection, which would itself result in improved GV fights.

2) Better concealability. You can tuck inside of a barn, and most aircraft probably won't see you untill those first 20mm rounds punch through their canopy.

3) better view. You're much lower to the ground, so the blindspots created by the turret armor will be much smaller.



Thoughts?

You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline FBCrabby

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 04:00:43 AM »
meh...
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 06:12:53 AM »
The SdKfz/9 would be easy to add, it was armed with a 75 mm L/24, a fast firing infantry support cannon.  It'd be great for hammering towns, etc. 

The SdKfz/22 would be easy to add as well, the 75 mm PaK40 L/46 gun is already represented in the Panzer F KwK40 L/43.

The SdKfz/21 would be easy to add, too.  The (triple) German 20mm MG 151 are already in game, and it would offer a more mobile/faster AA platform with firepower between the M16 and Wirby.   

FWIW, when say "easy", I say that only because the weapons and chassis are already done, "only" the the graphics of adding the mounts, etc, need to be done.  I'd like to believe that the process if minimized.   
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Offline MAINER

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 06:35:07 AM »
I would love to see them added. You never see anyone using a 251 anymore...
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Offline olds442

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 06:46:42 AM »
+1 to all


only a moron would use Dolby positioning in a game.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 07:25:15 AM »
I would love to see them added. You never see anyone using a 251 anymore...

Which is too bad.  If a person were to map out the distances between certain areas in a town, and then apply the known distances for the for the 251's 28cm rockets, two 251's with rockets and reloads could level a town in less than a minute.  ... oh wait...    ;)

Why take a 251 for base capture when the M3 offers the same # of troops, is 20mph faster, and has a better AA weapon?  Yhe only thing the 251 offers over the M3 are the 28cm rockets which no one takes the time to learn or use.  The stars and the sun and the moon all need to align just right for the 251 to be of much use.
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline MAINER

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2011, 04:52:37 PM »
Which is too bad.  If a person were to map out the distances between certain areas in a town, and then apply the known distances for the for the 251's 28cm rockets, two 251's with rockets and reloads could level a town in less than a minute.  ... oh wait...    ;)

Why take a 251 for base capture when the M3 offers the same # of troops, is 20mph faster, and has a better AA weapon?  Yhe only thing the 251 offers over the M3 are the 28cm rockets which no one takes the time to learn or use.  The stars and the sun and the moon all need to align just right for the 251 to be of much use.

you have motivated me to learn how to use the rockets haha
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2011, 06:23:16 PM »
you have motivated me to learn how to use the rockets haha

Good.   :)

If you can get a squad mate or two to de-ack the town via aircraft prior to your arrival, that would be good.  The auto ack in a town is your biggest threat.  Once upon a time I had a squad mate the town, then fly low and directly over the main plaza marking its distance from me.  Once close enough, I let loose a volley of 2 rockets and I got 15-18 buildings down that quickly with just 2 rockets, I had trouble duplicating those results but by the time I used up all by gv supply crates and rockets I had the town 2/3 to 3/4 the way to a white flag without even getting inside the town.   :aok
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline MAINER

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 07:15:49 PM »
Good.   :)

If you can get a squad mate or two to de-ack the town via aircraft prior to your arrival, that would be good.  The auto ack in a town is your biggest threat.  Once upon a time I had a squad mate the town, then fly low and directly over the main plaza marking its distance from me.  Once close enough, I let loose a volley of 2 rockets and I got 15-18 buildings down that quickly with just 2 rockets, I had trouble duplicating those results but by the time I used up all by gv supply crates and rockets I had the town 2/3 to 3/4 the way to a white flag without even getting inside the town.   :aok

Wow!
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2011, 08:19:55 PM »
It would get the SdKfz 251 some use, it would give us multiple vehicles for the price of one. And above all they would be unique in their play styles from anything else in the game. I imagine using the 251/22 as a mobile AT gun, rather than a tank destroyer or a tank would probably be the most succesfull.



And we could even expand the line even further, getting the 251/9 with the short 75mm mounted on the Panzer IV, and the 251/10, armed with a 37mm Pak 36, which would either be added after the Panzer III, or give us an excuse to get the Panzer III.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Butcher

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2011, 09:35:39 AM »
It would get the SdKfz 251 some use, it would give us multiple vehicles for the price of one. And above all they would be unique in their play styles from anything else in the game. I imagine using the 251/22 as a mobile AT gun, rather than a tank destroyer or a tank would probably be the most succesfull.

And we could even expand the line even further, getting the 251/9 with the short 75mm mounted on the Panzer IV, and the 251/10, armed with a 37mm Pak 36, which would either be added after the Panzer III, or give us an excuse to get the Panzer III.

I'd vote on the Sdkfz 251/17 being a single 20mm anti aircraft mount, however being the 251 was just added awhile back Its going to be forever before it ever gets upgraded.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2011, 02:05:16 PM »
Why? it would be both slower and lighter-armed than the M16 then. Really no reason to take it out with the 20mm mount in that case.


M16 would give you a fast, reasonably armed AA vehcile, with basicly no armor

SdKfz 251/21 would give you a moderate-speed, heavily armed AA vehicle, again with basicly no armor

The Wirblewind/ostiwind would give you a slow, heavily armed AA vehicle, with pretty good armor


If we're going to go to the trouble of updating the SdKfz 251 so we can add variants of it, we might as well add variants that offer something over our current vehilces.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Butcher

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2011, 03:42:57 PM »
If we're going to go to the trouble of updating the SdKfz 251 so we can add variants of it, we might as well add variants that offer something over our current vehilces.

It will likely be years before it gets updated.
JG 52

Offline matt

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 11:58:13 AM »
+1

Offline Krusty

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Re: SdKfz 251/22 and 251/21
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 12:01:48 PM »
Why? it would be both slower and lighter-armed than the M16 then. Really no reason to take it out with the 20mm mount in that case.

Slower, yes, but better armored, and the 20mm (even a single 20mm) would be a lot better than quad .50s. The thing about 20mm is it does more damage per ping. With the quad fiddy you have a higher chance of getting a ping (a wall of lead for the bad guy to fly into) but bringing down a target is a waste of time when you have ostwinds and wirbles. You may still only get 1 "ping" on the target with a single 20mm, but that ping may be enough.

A single 20mm platform, even if slower, would be far better than the M16 in in-game results.