Scratch "Across the board" ENY - Make it USEFUL instead

[Karnak]

real world production vs the amount of times that certain plane shotdown. in tour 143, 4,923 P-51D's were shot down. A total of 8,156 were made in what..2 years? no comprende?
Thats what needs to be dealt with IMO

How would you like real world production numbers to be relevant to the game?

[4Prop]

How would you like real world production numbers to be relevant to the game?

I'd love it. probably have to wipe my screen off

[Karnak]

I'd love it. probably have to wipe my screen off

No, what I mean is in what manner would you like historical production numbers to be tied to the game?  What effect in game terms would you like it to have.  How would you set it up?  How do you deal with something like the Spitfire Mk XVI which had a production run of just over 1000, but is the same aircraft as the Spitfire LF.Mk IX which had a production run of over 3000, but isn't in the game.  Do we use the 1000 number, or the combined total?

[Krusty]

What counts as "limited production?"  50? 100? 250? 500?  1000? 2500? 5000?

To back Karnak up here:

For Germany the Me410 had over 1000 made and was considered a lesser produced variant.

For Italy the C.202 had over 1000 made and was one of the MOST produced fighters in Italian history

For the U.S. 1000 would barely be enough to gear up and train most planes.



Further, does it matter what the losses are in this game, as compared to history? Historically, a P-51 pilot had a slim chance of EVER seeing the enemy during the war. In this game you're gauranteed to run into many enemy every single time you up, multiple times a day. There are more deaths, but this is because there are thousands of times better chances of getting into danger. You really can't even compare them.

[4Prop]

No, what I mean is in what manner would you like historical production numbers to be tied to the game?  What effect in game terms would you like it to have.  How would you set it up?  How do you deal with something like the Spitfire Mk XVI which had a production run of just over 1000, but is the same aircraft as the Spitfire LF.Mk IX which had a production run of over 3000, but isn't in the game.  Do we use the 1000 number, or the combined total?

to me taking total production numbers of every airplane/tank we have in the game and cut the numbers down to those. so if (lets just say) 10k P-40Ns were made through the entire war. only 10k p40Ns can be killed a month. then the plane is disabled. that doesnt mean only 10k sorties of p40Ns can be flown,just shot down.

so that means every month only 8,156 P-51Ds can be shot down until the plane can no longer be flown. It seems fair to where as wartime production of an airplane like the 51D can be used in a single month.

as far as perk rides (262 C-hog, -4 etc) somthing would have to be done so that 4 or 5 people use them all up. also with planes with low wartime production numbers would have to be given a lift in numbers. the way to do that is maybe see what time of the month it ran out of numbers last time. so if only 300 P-47Ms were made, and all 300 were used by the 10th day, somthing would have to be done to make them last to say the 20th.

that way people cant just up the planes they dont like and wreck them so they wont have to deal with it.

I dont mean to hijack the thread but thats my 2 cents on the subject

[Krusty]

to me taking total production numbers of every airplane/tank we have in the game and cut the numbers down to those. so if (lets just say) 10k P-40Ns were made through the entire war. only 10k p40Ns can be killed a month. then the plane is disabled. that doesnt mean only 10k sorties of p40Ns can be flown,just shot down.

have you looked up the stats on how many planes are lost each tour in this game? The VOLUME of it is many many times that of WW2 combined.

We lost over 10,000 B-17s last month alone. Also over 10,000 F4u1Ds. Over 14000 Lancasters. Over 14,000 76mm Shermans. Over 20,000 P-51Ds, and over 90,000 Panzers of combined types. We lost more than 10,000 Spit16s, and more than 14,000 Wirbls (historically only 200 total were ever built).


Even if players bothered to stoop so low as to only flying D3As and Sopwith Camels because that's the only thing left, we'd run out of ANY rides inside of a week or two as the entire stock of warplanes was used up.


It simply is a poor idea, but it's also a punitive idea, punishing the entire arena for up to an entire month for wanting to use a specific plane. At least with ENY limitations, etc, it's only a temporary fix and can be remedied instantly by switching teams.

[Lusche]

and more than 14,000 Wirbls (historically only 200 total were ever built)

The Wirbelwind is certainly the item with the biggest disparity between real life numbers and importance vs AH stats. (Actually only a bit over 100 were built. In 2010, 188,000 Wirbelwinde had been destroyed in the LW MA)

[4Prop]

have you looked up the stats on how many planes are lost each tour in this game? The VOLUME of it is many many times that of WW2 combined.

We lost over 10,000 B-17s last month alone. Also over 10,000 F4u1Ds. Over 14000 Lancasters. Over 14,000 76mm Shermans. Over 20,000 P-51Ds, and over 90,000 Panzers of combined types. We lost more than 10,000 Spit16s, and more than 14,000 Wirbls (historically only 200 total were ever built).


Even if players bothered to stoop so low as to only flying D3As and Sopwith Camels because that's the only thing left, we'd run out of ANY rides inside of a week or two as the entire stock of warplanes was used up.


It simply is a poor idea, but it's also a punitive idea, punishing the entire arena for up to an entire month for wanting to use a specific plane. At least with ENY limitations, etc, it's only a temporary fix and can be remedied instantly by switching teams.

yeah woops. I checked tour 143 thinking that was last month. thats why the numbers were so low it seemed like a good idea. if we dont go to real wartime productions I definantly think we do need to limit planes somewhere. or maybe go to each country. and figure out a way to add in more numbers of the low production numbers of some units. if 20k p51s were lost through 3 countries, 3x8 is 24. so that leaves room for 24k total flights for that 1 plane. thats definantly enough. we will probably notice more side switching etc if implemented.

I definantly agree with any way of cutting availability of numbers of airplanes,even if not in the way as i mentioned.

EDIT: 3222 P47 D-40s were lost in 1 month. only thing is, 500 to ship gunners (safegun dweebs  ) 408 were lost to wirbelwinds,and around 50 to other GVs. round that to 1000 lost by non aircraft units. only 2,222 were lost to airplanes. of what production number were there of P-47 D-40s. to prove that I'm not just liking this idea due to low deaths of the P-47s so I can benefit

-so of the 8.1k p51s made in WW2 production.
1)20k lost in 1 month total
2)1351 lost to wirbelwinds, 1539 to ship gunners, 66 to M-16s, 49 to chutes (lol) 109 to ostwinds, and looks like around 150 to other GVs.
3) so somewhere from 3100-3250 were lost to somthing other then airplanes. thats down to 17k lost of the 8.1k made. 17 divided by 3 is roughly 5.6

so looks like the average of each countries P51 loss is 5.6k per country of the 8.1k made. if we make each countries plane limit seperately divided I think it could play out a little better. its kind of obvious that 1 country flies 51s more then another. coupled with 12 hour side switch. lowers the amount of pony dweebs in the air.

sure it forces people into other planes but it would seem (to me) a little better looking at the AH world from a 3rd person prospective. by that I mean you wont just have 5 or 6 dominant planes in the air every day

[Krusty]

Lusche, it seriously needs a major perking. ESPECIALLY since it fires 4 guns with no reload. I wish they'd never added it to the game. It's way over powered and way over modeled. Remember when it first came out? You could pincer it and it'd kill 1 guy at d 1.2k, rotate 180 degrees instantly and kill the next guy at d900 and never take a hit.

I'm against arbitrary limiting of the planes people can fly. It's a bad theory to implement in an MMO like this. They should be limited or balanced for gameplay reasons. ENY and/or perk helps to that regard, but doesn't truly punish players for something that's not even their fault.

You punish people and they stop playing the game. It's really that simple. If the P-51D were unavailable to the LWA probably 25% of the playerbase would rage quit and never come back.

[Lusche]

Lusche, it seriously needs a major perking. ESPECIALLY since it fires 4 guns with no reload. I wish they'd never added it to the game. It's way over powered and way over modeled. Remember when it first came out? You could pincer it and it'd kill 1 guy at d 1.2k, rotate 180 degrees instantly and kill the next guy at d900 and never take a hit.

Whilel I would like to see a more historical "realistic" way gun reloading being modeled in AH (not limited to Wirbel", I don't see any any necessity of perking the WW at all. There is no balance problem in gameplay terms at all, especially after the turret rotation speed had been adjusted.

[Krusty]

It definitely deserves a perk considering only a highly practiced attack run by a skilled pilot can take one out. IMO it had no place in the game as it literally changed the dynamics of gameplay. 90% of my deaths right after it came out were probably from wirbls taking parts off of me from 1.5k when I wasn't even attacking! I was engaging other planes! Or RTB, or something.

[Lusche]

90% of my deaths right after it came out were probably from wirbls taking parts off of me from 1.5k when I wasn't even attacking! I was engaging other planes! Or RTB, or something.

Yea, and right after it came out the P-47M was one on the most numerous and deadly fighters as well. Should we perk it now for that moment of fame?

Players have adjusted, they now watch out some more and the "problem" is gone. Only very few players can consistently score kills past 1000 yards in a wirbel, unless the attackers is flying right into their guns.

No perk worthy at all in any way.

[Krusty]

I disagree with your opinion that the wirb is harmless because we're all used to it. Being used to it doesn't change it's capabilities.

[Karnak]

My concern is the upcoming ability of an aircraft I am chasing to see his friendly Whirbelwind out to 6.0 and lead me over to it without me ever being able to see it until I am facing a spray of 20mm rounds.

[Lusche]

I disagree with your opinion that the wirb is harmless because we're all used to it. Being used to it doesn't change it's capabilities.

I wonder where I said "harmless"?

It's not unbalancing in any way. And that's the only thing that matter in terms of perks. That's a huge difference.

Since the new towns had been introduced it's not even used to rush them anymore. It's a potent and effective point defense vehicle, but it can't catch up with planes, can be strafed down (at risk), be bombed with relatively low risk, can be avoided. It's a huge risk to careless pilots and vulchers, the latter being a good thing for the game. The turret speed had been fixed, the usefulness vs ground targets (towns) has been reduced a lot, tactics in combating it had been refined. Bad pilots will die to it, but bad Wirbel drivers will too.