Collision Model

[des506]

hey chilli thanks for the vote of confidence ... i reckon its those people who has frequent bad connection or latency issues... would be on the other end of the spectrum where i am.. i'm playing from singapore.. which is a good distance away from any AH server...i do not believe the current model is the best... or that it doesn't need to change....most people with good connections or latency will beg to differ guaranteed! as skuzzy say.. as long you interect with another aircraft collisions are bound to happen... but my point i am making here is, to solely blame 1 party for the collision due to the lag or latency is simply not perfect to me( since i am 99% on this current side of the specturm). Also... many others who collided and got away with it damage free isn't always the innocent person trying to avoid the collision... search your feelings.... you know them to be true...

[FLS]

So if I'm flying a plane and I collide with another plane it's my fault?

But if another plane collides withe me, but I can't see that, it's their fault?

And if we bother see ourselves hitting each other it's both our fault?

Brilliant!!!  Here's a cookie

p.s. thank gawd someone gets it.

No. Fault is irrelevant. If somebody flies into you on your computer but they don't hit you on their computer then it's not your fault or their fault. It's a true no-fault collision. You might fault yourself for failing to get out of the way but that's really a different issue.

[Shuffler]

As I said.  It would be entertaining.  Keep going, I have my boots on 

I always have my boots on.

[Shuffler]

In a close scissors fight, 100 is pretty common.  I just looked at film of a fight between myself and a 109, and our ranges varied from 6 (!) to 110 for most of the engagement, hovering mostly around 50-60.  That's not uncommon.

He dove on him and closed to 100 off his 6... no scissors. That is in his description I think.

[FLS]

hey chilli thanks for the vote of confidence ... i reckon its those people who has frequent bad connection or latency issues... would be on the other end of the spectrum where i am.. i'm playing from singapore.. which is a good distance away from any AH server...i do not believe the current model is the best... or that it doesn't need to change....most people with good connections or latency will beg to differ guaranteed! as skuzzy say.. as long you interect with another aircraft collisions are bound to happen... but my point i am making here is, to solely blame 1 party for the collision due to the lag or latency is simply not perfect to me( since i am 99% on this current side of the specturm). Also... many others who collided and got away with it damage free isn't always the innocent person trying to avoid the collision... search your feelings.... you know them to be true...

You apparently still don't understand how collisions work. When Skuzzy said "intersect" he used it as an alternative to "collide". You wrote above that as long as you collide with another aircraft your are bound to collide. I think we all agree with that. "Intersect" is not the same as "interact" which seems, by your usage, to be your understanding of the word.

Your location in the world and your lag do not put you at a disadvantage in collisions. You believe differently but you are mistaken.

[Karnak]

hey chilli thanks for the vote of confidence ... i reckon its those people who has frequent bad connection or latency issues... would be on the other end of the spectrum where i am.. i'm playing from singapore.. which is a good distance away from any AH server...i do not believe the current model is the best... or that it doesn't need to change....most people with good connections or latency will beg to differ guaranteed! as skuzzy say.. as long you interect with another aircraft collisions are bound to happen... but my point i am making here is, to solely blame 1 party for the collision due to the lag or latency is simply not perfect to me( since i am 99% on this current side of the specturm). Also... many others who collided and got away with it damage free isn't always the innocent person trying to avoid the collision... search your feelings.... you know them to be true...

Connection speed, latency, lag, has no effect on the model at all.  None.  Zero.  Zilch. Nada.  It is 100% irrelevant to the discussion.  Why?  Because it is the same for both you and your opponent.  The latency is the total between you and him.  If he is in Dallas, TX with a .030 ping and you are in Singapore with a .350 ping, the latency for both of you in your fight is .380.

[RTHolmes]

...i do not believe the current model is the best...

thats because you still dont understand how it works.

[Dead Man Flying]

He dove on him and closed to 100 off his 6... no scissors. That is in his description I think.

He just mentioned that he was 100 off his 6 but didn't say if he dove in or not.  I agree, 100 is waaaay too close to wait to fire if you're right on someone's six at a high rate of speed.  Even if you kill the guy, you're probably gonna collide with the flaming hulk before being able to get out of the way.

[grizz441]

He just mentioned that he was 100 off his 6 but didn't say if he dove in or not.  I agree, 100 is waaaay too close to wait to fire if you're right on someone's six at a high rate of speed.  Even if you kill the guy, you're probably gonna collide with the flaming hulk before being able to get out of the way.

Yeah exactly. 

I have been in plenty of rolling scissors at very close distances, similar to the quantities you described earlier.  Imo, the better you understand what is going on in the fight, the closer you can safely get and the thinner of angles you can work without colliding.  Basically, the safety line goes from a thick dull hazy gray line for an average player, to a fine black sharp line as you improve your skills.

[Chilli]

Connection speed, latency, lag, has no effect on the model at all.  None.  Zero.  Zilch. Nada.  It is 100% irrelevant to the discussion.  Why?  Because it is the same for both you and your opponent.  The latency is the total between you and him.  If he is in Dallas, TX with a .030 ping and you are in Singapore with a .350 ping, the latency for both of you in your fight is .380.

Karnak,

I don't know enough to dispute what you say is not always true.  In fact, it seems to be reasonable.  Possibly, as someone else pointed to, it is more of an issue of packet loss  I don't know. 

My understanding, (forgive me for clouding any discussion on fault - not where I am concerned) the game is played at home on my computer as well as the same for every other player.  I receive an update on my computer which tells me where that player is (in relation to our paths) from information updated from his computer to the server. 

I see  >>>> server  <<<< another online player updates 

^^^
This seems reasonable to me, is it correct??

Please explain for my understanding warps, if you will.  This being the extreme example of what I am trying to describe or grasp.  The poor Joe, bouncing all over the sky, every couple of seconds, what is his computer telling the servers different on his end that gets garbled on my end?  (Again, I know this is extreme, but I am aware that packet loss is something that I will never defeat with my type of connection, but work darn hard to get it minimized.) 

Is it possible, that some of us are just less fortunate with our connections?  That is all (please forgive the interruption).

[Scca]

Discuss.

Please no...

[Karnak]

Warps are not the same as latency.  Warps occur due to dropped packets and are a separate issue.  You could have a guy in Dallas, TX fighting a guy in Grapevine, TX and one of them dropping packets and warping while their latency was only .060.  That is less likely as there are fewer hops the data has to make and hence fewer opportunities for packet loss.  That being the case, people with high latency are more likely to be the people who are warping, but don't mistake correlation for causation.

[FLS]

Chilli go to the Tech Support forum and read Internet Connection Hints/Tips by Skuzzy. That should answer most of your questions.

[Chilli]

Yes, Skuzzy and HTC have been very helpful with my connection and I actually believe this part of the hints probably relates to me personally.

When schools start around the country, or when schools are out for holidays, or when schools are let out for any breaks, packet loss will be higher than other periods of time.  During severe weather, packet loss will be geographic in sync with wherever the severe weather is occurring.

Thanks, and no, I am in no way placing any blame on HTC for how the internet works.  I am very fortunate that this is a close knit organization and they cared enough to look over my ping plots and ever since then I have had improved performance with the exception of times of high traffic.

[hitech]

Please explain for my understanding warps, if you will.  This being the extreme example of what I am trying to describe or grasp.  The poor Joe, bouncing all over the sky, every couple of seconds, what is his computer telling the servers different on his end that gets garbled on my end?  (Again, I know this is extreme, but I am aware that packet loss is something that I will never defeat with my type of connection, but work darn hard to get it minimized.) 

Lets say the other computer tells you where he is once every second (the send rate is irreverent for this discussion). Your computer now simply draws him at that position each time it receives the packet. What you would see on your computer is his plane jump from 1 position to another every second.

Obviously you do not wish to see this so instead of just position he also sends his current speed and direction.

Now instead of seeing him in 1 position every second your computer continues to move him at the speed and direction he received.

Now say he starts a turn immediately after sending you a packet. Your computer would be drawing him in a straight line, but when the next packet came in he would not be where your computer expected him. So his new position would have to be drawn.

Now as long as everything is consistent, you will receive a packet every second no mater how long it takes for it to get to you , Lets say a 5 second lag, you will get the 1st packet 5 seconds later, but after that you will receive a packet every second and things will be just as smooth as if there was a 0 second lag.


Now what happens if some times the lag is 1 second and some times 5 seconds. Or if you receive 1 packet and then 4 packets are lost , and then you receive a packet again. Your computer will continue to display him using the last packet received information. When the new one comes in many seconds later it must correct for the error where it is drawing him.

This is what causes a warp. Dropped packets or inconstancy latency/lag. Ah is extremely tolerant of both latency changes and dropped packets. But when those changes are in the many seconds range, things start to warp.

What I have described is a very simple version of what AH really does, the total complexity and precision needed to make planes look smooth is far outside the scope of this discussion.

HiTech