P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.

[mthrockmor]

Just read the pilot AAR. I WANT ONE!!!

Skuzzy, let's set about discussing rules for adding ubber monster birds that came within 10-days of combat. Perk it halfway between a Tempest and 262 and let's call it good. Or perk it one point about the 262, whatever. No reason we shouldn't add this bad boy...

Boo

[Widewing]

If we ever get the Korean Theater with F-86s and Mig-15s we need to add some of these post-war monsters. Did the F8F or F9F see combat in Korea? That climb was incredible, like it had a RATO on it or something.

No I'm just getting envious for unrealistic combat. I want...

F8F
F9F
Dornier 335 Arrow
Japanese Delta wing pusher (forget nomenclature)
Spit Mark 21 or 22
P-51H
???

Boo

The F9F was a post war jet fighter... I believe you are thinking of the F7F Tigercat. Marine F7F night fighters were on Okinawa, flying local patrols when Japan surrendered, however no Japanese aircraft were encountered. Lucky for the Japanese.... The F7F was a very effective night fighter in Korea, eventually replaced by the twin turbojet F3D Sky Knight.

When Grumman brought the XF8F-1 and F7F-1 to the Joint Fighter Conference in October of 1944, the general conclusion of the many test pilots was that these were the two best fighters present (and this included the P-51D, P-47M, XF4U-4 and XF2G "Super Corsair").

[colmbo]

Did the F8F or F9F see combat in Korea?

The F9F Panther (straight wing version of the F9F) did see combat in Korea.  Watch the movie "Bridges at Toko-Ri".

[MachFly]

The record was for all aircraft, set in 1946. The record was the world record until beaten 10 years later by a turbojet aircraft. It remained a record for prop driven aircraft until 1972, when Rare Bear beat it by 1.1 seconds. Rare Bear, a modified racing F8F-2, also holds the world closed course speed record for a prop driven aircraft at just over 528 mph average speed (fastest run was 541.2 mph).

The Navy's F8F-1 was unmodified and fully fueled. It used Combat Power for the climb. It averaged 6,383 fpm, which included the time required for takeoff.

I recommend that anyone interested in the F8F read this article by Budd Davisson...
http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepBearcat.2.html

Roger, I first thought you mean that it was a record that still stands.

[MachFly]

The same as whether the wing was a laminar flow or not....not a dang thing.

As far as I understand the wing shape will make a difference in climb rate. You can have a wing designed for tight turns and climbs or you can have a wind designed for high speed. Take the P-51 and Spitfire (Merlin variant) for example, both had the same engine and the difference in speed was still almost 100mph. There is no way the prop can make such a large difference so this also points at the wing.

[MAINER]

I'm sure his Piper Cub could also beat the P51 since it has an air cooled engine and not one of them laminar flow wings.

Laminar flow wings generally to not create as much lift as a standard airfoil design. therefor your climb rate will in most cases be worse.

[Tupac]

However a laminar flow wing also produces less lift induced drag.

[colmbo]

Laminar flow wings generally to not create as much lift as a standard airfoil design. therefor your climb rate will in most cases be worse.

Life has squat to do with climb.  Climb comes from excess power/thrust. 

[colmbo]

There is no way the prop can make such a large difference so this also points at the wing.

It just points to the total drag vs power available.  The Mustang was a very clean design.

[MachFly]

It just points to the total drag vs power available.  The Mustang was a very clean design.

That too, but that clean Mustang can't climb as well as a Spitfire.

However I'd argue which one is cleaner. Spitfire also has flushed rebids and it's highback design is more aerodynamic.

[SectorNine50]

That too, but that clean Mustang can't climb as well as a Spitfire.

However I'd argue which one is cleaner. Spitfire also has flushed rebids and it's highback design is more aerodynamic.

I'd think the wing differences would more than make-up for that in terms of drag.

[Ardy123]

I'd think the wing differences would more than make-up for that in terms of drag.

No, the difference is in weight. A spitfire weighs much less than a p51. As stated before climb == excess power, so reducing weight improved climb.

[colmbo]

Lift has squat to do with climb.  Climb comes from excess power/thrust. 

** Edited for spelling

[Krupinski]

My K4 could pwn it.

[SectorNine50]

No, the difference is in weight. A spitfire weighs much less than a p51. As stated before climb == excess power, so reducing weight improved climb.

I was talking in terms of aerodynamic "cleanliness," but yes I'm sure power-to-weight plays the biggest role.