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Author Topic: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.  (Read 3018 times)

Offline Widewing

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P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« on: December 26, 2011, 08:04:02 PM »
There's a reason why one Bearcat or another has held the world record for time to climb (standing start to 10k feet in 96 seconds, IIRC) for over 60 years. The F8F is wheels up and long gone before the P-51 is off the runway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5HfqMtksBI&feature=share
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Offline MAINER

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 09:20:05 PM »
Thats because it has a good AIR COOLED engine ;)... not one of merlin engines. And no laminar flow wing.
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Offline Butcher

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 09:54:42 PM »
I so want an F8F or F9F now :(
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Offline Widewing

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 09:56:24 PM »
I was incorrect as to the time to climb record... The time was 94 seconds. The F8F-1 used was fueled with 150 gallons of avgas and was not modified whatsoever, and the flight was made in 1946. The follow-on F8F-2, climbed even better. I've seen Navy test data indicating a climb rate in excess of 6,300 fpm. Remember, the F8F was a few inches shorter and a slightly smaller wing span than the F4F-4, and had twice the horsepower.... It missed combat by about 10 days.
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 11:37:43 PM »
Wow, I had no idea that it was smaller than the F4F. 
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Offline streakeagle

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 01:18:37 AM »
To be fair, the F8F should be compared with the P-51H, not the D :P The D's climb was easily beat by its contemporaries, so putting it up against a late war monster like the F8F is pretty much pointless.
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Offline MachFly

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 03:47:54 AM »
Widewing,

Is world record you mentioned specific to US Navy classic aircraft or is it actually a record for all aircraft? I'm pretty sure that modern fighters can climb a bit faster.  ;)

Another reason why I'm doubting is I though that post war Spitfires (mk XVIII, 21, & 22) had the fastest climb rate of the class. I don't have the numbers for their climb rate other then that it was greater that 5000ft/min, so this information is not really evidence.
Does anyone have the numbers for their climb rates by any chance?



Quote from: MAINER on December 26, 2011, 09:20:05 PM
Thats because it has a good AIR COOLED engine ;)... not one of merlin engines.

What does the type of cooling have to do with the climb rate?
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Offline Debrody

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 04:13:13 AM »
6300 fpm... wow thats sick.
A 7000lbs, 2000Hp 109 K-4 could do a bit above 5000fpm... Not easy to find a smaller plane with a more powerful engine.
Which engine that monster had? Or was it a "hot rod", lightened and pimped up for the record?
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Offline colmbo

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 07:36:45 AM »
Quote from: MachFly on December 27, 2011, 03:47:54 AM



What does the type of cooling have to do with the climb rate?

The same as whether the wing was a laminar flow or not....not a dang thing.
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Offline Tupac

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 11:10:13 AM »
Quote from: colmbo on December 27, 2011, 07:36:45 AM
The same as whether the wing was a laminar flow or not....not a dang thing.

But MAINER flew Piper Cubs that did 120mph  :devil

How can you not be in awe of his knowledge and superior skeelz?
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Offline Tupac

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 11:12:29 AM »
I'm sure his Piper Cub could also beat the P51 since it has an air cooled engine and not one of them laminar flow wings.
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 11:20:38 AM »
If we ever get the Korean Theater with F-86s and Mig-15s we need to add some of these post-war monsters. Did the F8F or F9F see combat in Korea? That climb was incredible, like it had a RATO on it or something.

No I'm just getting envious for unrealistic combat. I want...

F8F
F9F
Dornier 335 Arrow
Japanese Delta wing pusher (forget nomenclature)
Spit Mark 21 or 22
P-51H
???

Boo
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Offline Widewing

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 11:22:26 AM »
Quote from: MachFly on December 27, 2011, 03:47:54 AM
Widewing,

Is world record you mentioned specific to US Navy classic aircraft or is it actually a record for all aircraft? I'm pretty sure that modern fighters can climb a bit faster.  ;)

Another reason why I'm doubting is I though that post war Spitfires (mk XVIII, 21, & 22) had the fastest climb rate of the class. I don't have the numbers for their climb rate other then that it was greater that 5000ft/min, so this information is not really evidence.
Does anyone have the numbers for their climb rates by any chance?


The record was for all aircraft, set in 1946. The record was the world record until beaten 10 years later by a turbojet aircraft. It remained a record for prop driven aircraft until 1972, when Rare Bear beat it by 1.1 seconds. Rare Bear, a modified racing F8F-2, also holds the world closed course speed record for a prop driven aircraft at just over 528 mph average speed (fastest run was 541.2 mph).

The Navy's F8F-1 was unmodified and fully fueled. It used Combat Power for the climb. It averaged 6,383 fpm, which included the time required for takeoff.

I recommend that anyone interested in the F8F read this article by Budd Davisson...
http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepBearcat.2.html
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Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline SectorNine50

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2011, 11:28:59 AM »
Unreal...

Was there some huge technological change that allowed that climb rate?  Or was it just an absurd power-to-weight ratio?

EDIT:
Whoa... 3.5lbs per horsepower...
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 11:32:58 AM by SectorNine50 »
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Offline Debrody

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Re: P-51D and F8F do formation takeoff... Sort of.
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 11:40:07 AM »
Quote from: Widewing on December 27, 2011, 11:22:26 AM
I recommend that anyone interested in the F8F read this article by Budd Davisson...
http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepBearcat.2.html
thanks!
an amazing aircraft, for sure
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