Game Play question.

[The Fugitive]

I would like to take the conversation back toward possible solutions...

Several people have suggested some form of perk modifier for defenders as a form of motivation to defend...  I would like to reiterate my opinion that perk bonuses would not be effective. 

I decided to park my beloved Ki-84 in favor of something faster that can dive.  My thinking being that I would make an effort to fight the horde.  I thought that a faster plane that can dive might be the ideal choice for picking the edges of the horde.  Since I don't enjoy flying 262s, I opted for the P51D.  I was shocked by how few perks you earn on a multiple kill sortie.

The P51D is a low ENY aircraft.  You earn virtually no perks for flying the screwy thing.  You would think that if perk modifiers were an effective motivator, there wouldn't be so many P51Ds flying around the LW arena.  And yet, the P51D is everywhere.  Players seem to prefer the safety that the speed of the P51D grants them over the perks you can earn in an higher ENY airframe.  Why?  Because that speed allows them to avoid being shot down. 

I believe that this is human nature.  I also believe that a perk bonus for defending will not be enough of a motivator to get a significant number of people launching to fight the hordes.

Just my $0.02...

Are all these Mustangs you see attacking, or defending? It makes a difference. Used as an attack plane it carries a heavy load with out that nasty trick that most people have with the 38 of lawndarting. It isn't often you'll see a pony in defense unless your going to play the climb high and hunt for the horde game. Wost defenders use quick cannon planes for defense.

Many people say score doesn't matter, but I bet the page is hit more often than any other page HTC has. The same goes for the perk, those that have them couldn't care less, but those that don't, wish they did. They may not work toward building perks. After all you have a better chance building them if you first learn to fly and fight instead of hiding in the horde. But ask anyone of them that "has not" and I'd bet you see a lot of those wishing they had.

So far the only "carrot" in this has been points/perks. Maybe making the attacks easier to spot farther out to give defenders time to mount a defense, some kind of "early warning system.?

[Wiley]

I'd respectfully submit that there is no 'motivator' that will push people to up into a horde.  Perks are my main score motivator, so I tend to fly higher ENY stuff when I'm thinking about it, but I hop around from plane to plane and planeset to planeset depending on my whims.  Often, I fly the week's FSO ride or possible rides before Friday.

However, even though I like perks, that's not what makes me up and head toward a horde.  I do it because I find it fun, and I know when I get there, there will be enemy planes to kill.  I assume people who fly in the horde in low ENY planes aren't there for the perks or the score, they're there to take the base.  If you got 10 fighter perks for getting shot down in a goon, it wouldn't make me fly troops any more often because I don't find that part of the game fun.  I believe most people are similar.  They do what they find fun, or what they think the 'objective' is.

I think history shows in the game that a side that concentrates on defense winds up losing the war fairly consistently.  I believe this is why people tend to horde roll, because it is the most effective way to win, in the absence of a truly coordinated offensive/defensive strategy.

Wiley.

[PFactorDave]

Are all these Mustangs you see attacking, or defending? It makes a difference. Used as an attack plane it carries a heavy load with out that nasty trick that most people have with the 38 of lawndarting. It isn't often you'll see a pony in defense unless your going to play the climb high and hunt for the horde game. Wost defenders use quick cannon planes for defense.

Many people say score doesn't matter, but I bet the page is hit more often than any other page HTC has. The same goes for the perk, those that have them couldn't care less, but those that don't, wish they did. They may not work toward building perks. After all you have a better chance building them if you first learn to fly and fight instead of hiding in the horde. But ask anyone of them that "has not" and I'd bet you see a lot of those wishing they had.

So far the only "carrot" in this has been points/perks. Maybe making the attacks easier to spot farther out to give defenders time to mount a defense, some kind of "early warning system.?

You misunderstand me Fuji...  It has nothing to do with P51Ds attacking or defending...  Just that there are crap loads of them used in the game, in spite of the fact that there would be a huge perk advantage to flying something of a higher ENY...  But yet, there are craploads of them...  My commentary was only on the effectiveness of perk modifiers on player behavior.

[crazierthanu]

I would rather defend than attack, as I more often do. The challenge of fighting at a disadvantage and more often than not outnumbered brings an element of fun I dont experience when attacking.  

Hovering over an enemy base with an altitude and numbers advantage is good for getting kills, but not for finding those white knuckle fights you really want.

[kilo2]

To me there has to be a problem for a solution. I see no problem. Honestly many of you seem to be chasing a dream of what once was(in your own mind). Its like crack addicts trying to get a high like their first high. Just chasing the dragon.

Like I said before you can still find whats listed on the first page in this game right now.

[Chilli]

Kilo,

Either you haven't played the game long enough to know the difference or just too stubborn to admit there has been a shift in game play.  As for imagination, I am quite certain that I have NOT imagined the numerous threads on the matter, nor have I imagined the number of screenshots usually showing a particular squad, surrounded by excessive numbers, attacking one airfield.  I have no quarms with that squad or those that choose to play the hand that is dealt them.  In fact, I will most likely join them and grab my perks from destroying stationary objects and planes with at least one wheel on the ground.

Truly the dilusion is yours, but as long as you are happy, nevermind what others think.  I know what happened, I was there when it happened, and could tell you that it was actually fixed at one point, meaning there IS a solution. 

The main reason that I post at all about it is that there is much more right with the game, than is wrong.

[Zoney]

.  If you got 10 fighter perks for getting shot down in a goon, it wouldn't make me fly troops any more often because I don't find that part of the game fun.

Dang Wiley, ya totally cracked me up with that right there mate.  Totally true dude.



.......still laughing, got no idea why I find that so funny.........really





.................dang

[kilo2]

Kilo,

Either you haven't played the game long enough to know the difference or just too stubborn to admit there has been a shift in game play.  As for imagination, I am quite certain that I have NOT imagined the numerous threads on the matter, nor have I imagined the number of screenshots usually showing a particular squad, surrounded by excessive numbers, attacking one airfield.  I have no quarms with that squad or those that choose to play the hand that is dealt them.  In fact, I will most likely join them and grab my perks from destroying stationary objects and planes with at least one wheel on the ground.

Truly the dilusion is yours, but as long as you are happy, nevermind what others think.  I know what happened, I was there when it happened, and could tell you that it was actually fixed at one point, meaning there IS a solution. 

The main reason that I post at all about it is that there is much more right with the game, than is wrong.

I remember when I first started playing in 2007 joining huge missions all the time. So no there hasn't been a shift in game play just a shift in complaints on the forum.

[The Fugitive]

I'd respectfully submit that there is no 'motivator' that will push people to up into a horde.  Perks are my main score motivator, so I tend to fly higher ENY stuff when I'm thinking about it, but I hop around from plane to plane and planeset to planeset depending on my whims.  Often, I fly the week's FSO ride or possible rides before Friday.

However, even though I like perks, that's not what makes me up and head toward a horde.  I do it because I find it fun, and I know when I get there, there will be enemy planes to kill.  I assume people who fly in the horde in low ENY planes aren't there for the perks or the score, they're there to take the base.  If you got 10 fighter perks for getting shot down in a goon, it wouldn't make me fly troops any more often because I don't find that part of the game fun.  I believe most people are similar.  They do what they find fun, or what they think the 'objective' is.

I think history shows in the game that a side that concentrates on defense winds up losing the war fairly consistently.  I believe this is why people tend to horde roll, because it is the most effective way to win, in the absence of a truly coordinated offensive/defensive strategy.

Wiley.

So your basically saying that there is nothing that will bring players to organize a defense. It will always be a hap-hazzard setup with little chance to beat the horde.  On top of that there is no way to stop a horde. On top of that we are stuck with the horde because it IS the "most effective way to win". 

To me there has to be a problem for a solution. I see no problem. Honestly many of you seem to be chasing a dream of what once was(in your own mind). Its like crack addicts trying to get a high like their first high. Just chasing the dragon.

Like I said before you can still find whats listed on the first page in this game right now.

I agree, everything is still there. the problem is now you have to look for it. Some times you don't find it for hours, and heaven forbid your looking for one thing while all everyone else is doing something else. Back in tour 22 when I started you could find any type of game play that was available at that time ANYTIME! Fights, co-ordinated attacks, bomber missions to strats, base take missions both in NOE and high alt GV battles that didn't happen right at a spawn point,  squads that fought squads. Today we chase hordes WOO-HOO!! 

[Chilli]

So stubborn it is then, Kilo.    Fugitive, you are absolutely correct.  What burns me is that the moment base capture was again put within the reach of a normal  sized squadron, the  maps opened up with action spread all over.  Like you were saying some made NOE missions, some took the bombers and escorts, and some just flew to the nearest fight where their buddies were hanging out. 

• Then, what happened?  Folks (probably the ones who never defend) complained that one bomber could ready a town, opening the door for a goon to capture a field.     Well, duh.......
• Small force attempting a base capture takes much less of an organized defense.  Making the town ready sooner and less kabobulated, brings all kinds of players to the table. 
• HTC relented and pushed town percentage back up to another arbitrary percentage (75%) and now we have the horde, nothing but the horde, so help me horde...... 

Again, implementing a better balance in town readiness and size of successful capture missions, distributes the players in a much more random pattern  rather than the "one fight fits all" clump, which heavily favors the chess piece with the quickest clotting factor. 

[BaldEagl]

Theres probably some truth in what you last said Chilli.  

There have been a lot of changes to fields since AHI; VBases used to be a single camouflage net hanger then had three hangers that were all together but could be taken in a single bomber pass then were spread out then more ack was added then more manned ack was added then 17 lbers were added.  

Likewise in the beginning you dropped troops on the airfield and could close down the runways by bombing them then the towns were added then auto ack was expanded (star wars ack) then troop barracks were increased then more manned ack was added then the towns were expanded and soon 88mm ack will be added.

I'm sure I messed up that chronology somewhere or missed things but is it any wonder that along the way the hordes have expanded?

I think you're right too in that most of these things were wished for and brought on by the furballers.  The very ones who now comlain about the hordes.

Like the old saying goes; be careful what you wish for.

[Rob52240]

I think history shows in the game that a side that concentrates on defense winds up losing the war fairly consistently.  I believe this is why people tend to horde roll, because it is the most effective way to win, in the absence of a truly coordinated offensive/defensive strategy.

Wiley.

Implementing any kind of strategy involving more people than you have on vox and know well is like herding cats.

[kilo2]

So stubborn it is then, Kilo.    Fugitive, you are absolutely correct.  What burns me is that the moment base capture was again put within the reach of a normal  sized squadron, the  maps opened up with action spread all over.  Like you were saying some made NOE missions, some took the bombers and escorts, and some just flew to the nearest fight where their buddies were hanging out.  

• Then, what happened?  Folks (probably the ones who never defend) complained that one bomber could ready a town, opening the door for a goon to capture a field.    Well, duh.......
• Small force attempting a base capture takes much less of an organized defense.  Making the town ready sooner and less kabobulated, brings all kinds of players to the table.  
• HTC relented and pushed town percentage back up to another arbitrary percentage (75%) and now we have the horde, nothing but the horde, so help me horde......  

Again, implementing a better balance in town readiness and size of successful capture missions, distributes the players in a much more random pattern   rather than the "one fight fits all" clump, which heavily favors the chess piece with the quickest clotting factor.  

Well if not agreeing with you is stubborn then yes. This is just another thinly veiled "you should play the game my way" complaint.  The thing that makes this game great is it is so open ended. You can do whatever you want. Implementing any you must fly here or you can't fly there will ruin that.

[Wiley]

Implementing any kind of strategy involving more people than you have on vox and know well is like herding cats.

Precisely.  Hording is used because it works in the near complete absence of organization.  Any addition of organization to the mix makes it work even better.

IMO it's the nature of the beast.  You've got an arena that is essentially free for all, people generally don't log in to be a cog in the machine, they're here to do their own thing.  Expecting anything else is unrealistic.

Wiley.

[Chilli]

Well if not agreeing with you is stubborn then yes. This is just another thinly veiled "you should play the game my way" complaint.  The thing that makes this game great is it is so open ended. You can do whatever you want. Implementing any you must fly here or you can't fly there will ruin that.

Kilo,

Let's back up.  It is true that we don't agree.  I am sure that you are someone that I would enjoy playing the game with in all of it's many different options.   

What I think that you are not hearing me say, BaldEagle put into perspective.  The game designers have consistently implemented changes that have made base captures more difficult.  The only exception, was when they reduced the town percentage to 50% and added the flag in town for a short period of time (a couple of weeks).  During that time, what you say about having the ability for multiple options was abundant.  Like I said before, I was there when this happened. 

Why did they make that change?  As I recall they said that adding the towns with more buildings and more difficult line of sight on destroyed buildings (paraphrase) was not their intention to decrease the rate of base captures.

Me personally, have no interest in limiting where anyone must fly.  I don't even like ENY or country change time limits (although, I do understand what they are intended to do).   With a simple roll back of the town percentage, it would only make more options available.  Please dispute me on the last premise if you like (that is all that I am saying in a nut shell).

Have a good day bro