HE-177

[olds442]

We need a german bomber that can defend it self to mabey return home, i understand how it preformed in the field (always brecking, etc) so do what you did with the B29 perk it i dont care i want this bomber!

spec's:
Origin: Ernst Heinkel AG, also built by Arado Flugzeugwerke.
Type: He177, six seat heavy-bomber and missle carrier
Engines: Two 2,950hp Daimler-Benz DB 610A-1/B-1, each comprising two inverted-vee-12 liquid-cooled engines geared to one propellor.
Dimensions: Span 103ft 1 3/4 in (31.44m); length 72ft 2in (22m); height 21ft (6.4m)
Weights: Empty 37,038lb (16,800kg); loaded (A-5) 68,343lb (31,000kg)
Performance: Maximum speed (at 41,000lb) 295mph (472 km/h); initial climb 853ft (260m)/min; service ceiling 26,500ft (7080m); range with FX or Hs293 missles (no bombs) about 3,107 miles (5000km)
Armament: (A-5/R-2) one 7.92mm MG 81J manually aimed in nose, one MG131 in forward dorsal turret, one MG 131 in rear dorsal turret, one MG 151 manually aimed in the tail and two MG 81 or one MG 131 manually aimed at rear of gondola; maximum internal bombload 13,200lb (6000kg), seldom carried. External load: two Hs293 guided missiles, FX 1400 guided bombs, mines or torpedoes (more if internal bay blanked off and racks added below it.)
Users: Germany (Luftwaffe)

OTHER INFO from the website.
Arado built 130 A-1s, followed by 170 Heinkel built A-3s, and 826 A-5s, which had repositioned engines and a longer fuselage. About 700 Greifs served on the Eastern Front, many of these having 50mm and 75mm guns for tank-busting duties. A few even (nervously) bombed England in 400mph shallow dives, without any proper aiming for their bombs. The aircraft proved so bothersome that Goering had to forbid Heinkel to pester him any more with plans to use four separate engines! But Heinkel secretly flew the He277 with four 1-750hp DB 603A at Vienna, as the first of a major production programme. The almost completly redesigned He274 was a high-altitude bomber developed at the Farman factory at Suresnes, with four 1,850hp engines, a 145ft wing and twin fins. After the liberation, it was readied for flight, and flown at Orleans-Bricy.
Perhaps the scariest fact about the He177 was the fact that one was secretely being readied in Czechoslovakia to carry the planned German Atomic bomb. It is quite possible that, if it weren't for a few brave Norwegian saboteurs, Adolf Hitler would have had a prepared Atomic bomb towards the war's end. I have no further information on that special He177, and I would like anyone with any to please send it to me.

Charles Bain
 
website it self>>>http://www.simviation.com/fsdcbainhe177.htm
wekipedia page>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_177

[Karnak]

What would be appropriate, Aces High style, bombload options for the He177A-5?  What sorts of loads were typical during the mini-Blitz?  Usually the He177A-5 is listed with a confusing and contradictory mix of extremely different bombs.

[lyric1]

Even with all the pretty pictures it is still a dog.

[MAINER]

+1

[SpencAce]

i think its pretty damn cool lookin

[lyric1]

i think its pretty damn cool lookin

Cool looking yes.

As far as it's real life usefulness in WWII?? .... A dog.

[chris3]

moin

what is the definition of usefulness?
you can thay all ouer weapens in wwII are useless because we lost the war .

if the he177 were used in numbers like the he111 or ju 88 and all the early problems of this typ were fixed the allied airforces did have been a problem to stop the Luftwaffen camains.

the he 177 must be the fastes Luftwaffe Bomber with the heavyst loadout and the biges range, im sure it would be a nice addition to Aces High.


cu christian

[lyric1]

moin

what is the definition of usefulness?
you can thay all ouer weapens in wwII are useless because we lost the war .

if the he177 were used in numbers like the he111 or ju 88 and all the early problems of this typ were fixed the allied airforces did have been a problem to stop the Luftwaffen camains.

the he 177 must be the fastes Luftwaffe Bomber with the heavyst loadout and the biges range, im sure it would be a nice addition to Aces High.


cu christian

OK for an example this is a dive bomber that could not dive bomb just to name an issue that was never solved. I have no bias as to who won or who lost the war as a reason why an aircraft should or should not be included.

The problems of this aircraft were numerous & never were resolved & there is the problem for AHII. It would show up as a great bomber that would have none of it's inherit issues.

Now if they can program in all of it's real life issues that never were solved   sure put it in I have no issue with that.

Reading a book about operation Lusty when it came time to fly this plane they asked German crews to fly it. A number of German pilots were working with the Americans & were getting paid to do so & they all said no.

Reason being? Responce was we had to fly it before & we did not have a choice. No amount of money would make them fly it post war if they had the option.

Very telling I think.

[Karnak]

Originally stated by Captain Eric Brown:
...positive about all axes, but the controls were all remarkably light for such a large aircraft. Indeed I had the feeling that the elevator was dangerously light and I was all too aware of the intelligence reports of He 177s breaking up in the air so I decided to treat this control very gently... The aircraft had an automatic pull-out device and an acceleration warning apparatus fitted, but it really was nailbiting to have to treat a giant like this immense Heinkel bomber as if it was made of glass. The stalling characteristics with flaps and undercarriage lowered the aircraft buffeted violently at 140 km/h (87 mph) before the nose dropped at 135 km/h (84 mph). The buffet experienced was so violent that I had some concerns over structural damage. Somehow the He 177 always conveyed an impression of fragility despite its size."
....
"one of the very few German aircraft of the period that I tested that I did not enjoy flying"

[atom360]

I VOTE....(two butions on the table ones green and ones red) *ding* GREEEN +100000000

[Volron]

+1 to the 177.

Using it's engine flaws to say no, bologna.  The B-29 is a prime example.  It had constant engine problems during the war, ours does not.  So saying no to the 177 simply because of it's inherit engine issues (being the primary reason people use for saying no to it) is quite frankly, BS.

So again, +1 to the 177.  HOWEVER, I'd much rather see other German bombers added before hand.  The He-111 H-11 and the Do-17 Z-2 are the two I would like to see first.

[Karnak]

B-29's engine problems pale in comparison to the He177's.

[FBCrabby]

It looks like the B29's retarded half-brother

+20

[matt]

+1

[MK-84]

I'd like to have it at some point.

As for the reasons as to not add it...
(I.E)  "Oh but it had SO MANY problems!"
None of our planes have problems, with anything mechanical, you cant single one thing out mechanically, (like engine problems)  You can single out inherent structual weaknesses like weak landing gear in the Ki84 and N1K2 (try cranking on the differential braking if you don't believe me on these)  But in our world our cartoon mechanics do a wonderful job of properly maintain our aircraft.

In essense this will always be a depated topic, but think of the firestorm that would result if you were flying a plane and it suddenly caught fire, because it was "prone to"  Not fun for me, not fun for anyone else.  as a result it isnt modeled, which makes sense.

Also as a result it's a silly basis to make an argument for.  N1K2..engine reliabilty issues, Ki84, B29, P47M, Typhoon, Tempest, Me262, Me163, Meteor (which was in the vote) early 190's, and I'm sure the list goes on...

+1 to the addition.  It would give the axis their only heavy bomber, its very fast at reasonable altitudes, defensive armament is powerful, especially at the rear, it carries a very flexible and fairly large ords loadout, and it (so I've read) has very unique handling for a bomber it's size.  Perk it? sure, but we dont have an inexpensive perked bomber, and I believe this is a perfect addition for that.

p.s. How many P47m's were made Vs. He 177's  and how can you justify engine reliability as a result, and how many engine failures Vs flight hours?  There are too many questions unanswered on the subject that isn't modeled anyway's so its still a moot point.