HE-177

[lyric1]

Very hard to find a glowing report of this aircraft any place.

http://www.aviastar.org/gallery/234.html

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=545

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_he177.html

http://simviation.com/fsdcbainhe177.htm

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he177.html

http://www.aircraftaces.com/heinkel-177.htm

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/08/heinkel-he-177.html

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/aircraft/bomber/heinkel-he-177-greif.asp

http://www.aviationartstore.com/7He-177-9-1-11.htm

[lyric1]

I'd like to have it at some point.

As for the reasons as to not add it...
(I.E)  "Oh but it had SO MANY problems!"
None of our planes have problems, with anything mechanical, you cant single one thing out mechanically, (like engine problems)  You can single out inherent structual weaknesses like weak landing gear in the Ki84 and N1K2 (try cranking on the differential braking if you don't believe me on these)  But in our world our cartoon mechanics do a wonderful job of properly maintain our aircraft.

In essense this will always be a depated topic, but think of the firestorm that would result if you were flying a plane and it suddenly caught fire, because it was "prone to"  Not fun for me, not fun for anyone else.  as a result it isnt modeled, which makes sense.

Also as a result it's a silly basis to make an argument for.  N1K2..engine reliabilty issues, Ki84, B29, P47M, Typhoon, Tempest, Me262, Me163, Meteor (which was in the vote) early 190's, and I'm sure the list goes on...

+1 to the addition.  It would give the axis their only heavy bomber, its very fast at reasonable altitudes, defensive armament is powerful, especially at the rear, it carries a very flexible and fairly large ords loadout, and it (so I've read) has very unique handling for a bomber it's size.  Perk it? sure, but we dont have an inexpensive perked bomber, and I believe this is a perfect addition for that.

p.s. How many P47m's were made Vs. He 177's  and how can you justify engine reliability as a result, and how many engine failures Vs flight hours?  There are too many questions unanswered on the subject that isn't modeled anyway's so its still a moot point.

Engine problems were just one problem. Read some of the links I posted they did not even bother to uncrate some of these planes even when Germany was desperate for aircraft. Why well one report that is in one of those links sums it up.

It is useless as a bomber.

[33Vortex]

According to the 4+ Publications book on the Ta152 (from 2009 iirc) the He177 was the only Luftwaffe aircraft which could reach target untroubled by Soviet fighters during Op Zitadelle in '43. It was fast enough and had a defensive fire capacity to be difficult to intercept and a challenge to shoot down.

It would indeed be a awesome (and somewhat exotic) addition to the game. A very nice and welcome change to the AH bomber inventory otherwise so heavily dominated by allied designs.

 

[33Vortex]

It is useless as a bomber.

 

One RLM specification which made the design work that much more challenging to the engineers, was the capacity for dive bombing which was complete bull from operational usefulness point of view.

[MK-84]

With over 1000 planes built it's very hard to justify not including it at some point.

And regardless of it's problems, some can/will be modeled, and some not so much (in alignment with other aircraft)  (I would assume)
So there really isnt any reason not too add it as a wish, I'd like everything to be added!  and this isn't my first wish (but I'm not really a buff pilot)  but I'd certainly want to fly it.

    How would you justify not adding a plane that was built in numbers, and used frequently?  What changes would you make to it if it was included?  (to make it more...realistic)

[lyric1]

With over 1000 planes built it's very hard to justify not including it at some point.

And regardless of it's problems, some can/will be modeled, and some not so much (in alignment with other aircraft)  (I would assume)
So there really isnt any reason not too add it as a wish, I'd like everything to be added!  and this isn't my first wish (but I'm not really a buff pilot)  but I'd certainly want to fly it.

    How would you justify not adding a plane that was built in numbers, and used frequently?  What changes would you make to it if it was included?  (to make it more...realistic)

Read the links 1000 built 200 used in combat the rest left to rust.

[lyric1]

According to the 4+ Publications book on the Ta152 (from 2009 iirc) the He177 was the only Luftwaffe aircraft which could reach target untroubled by Soviet fighters during Op Zitadelle in '43. It was fast enough and had a defensive fire capacity to be difficult to intercept and a challenge to shoot down.

It would indeed be a awesome (and somewhat exotic) addition to the game. A very nice and welcome change to the AH bomber inventory otherwise so heavily dominated by allied designs.

 

Bring in axis bombers that worked first then get exotic.

[lyric1]

One RLM specification which made the design work that much more challenging to the engineers, was the capacity for dive bombing which was complete bull from operational usefulness point of view.

What I wrote was not my words but the Germans them selves in regards to the HE-177 overall performance.

Useless.

[33Vortex]

Read the links 1000 built 200 used in combat the rest left to rust.

It is still no reason to draw the conclusion it was a bad design lacking potential. How many Me262s were built, how many saw combat, how many actually shot down enemy a/c? With your reasoning, we really should get rid of the 262.  

And I'm still laughing at your 'useless' conclusion. It may have been to the germans during WW2 because they really didn't need that type of a/c from late '43 onwards, they needed capable bomber interceptors. It would be far from useless in Aces High. Don't confuse WW2 with this game.

[MK-84]

It did work.  Reliable compared with some other aircraft...no, but it did work.

So...whats your point?

and by work..It flew, it dropped bombs, it shot at enemy fighters, it crashed some, it prolly shot something down...etc...uhh what are you looking for here?

...or are you just defending a point because you made it?  Might be an unpopular aircraft from their crew standpoint, but...HEY we dont have that problem!  So again  whats your point?

[lyric1]

It is still no reason to draw the conclusion it was a bad design lacking potential. How many Me262s were built, how many saw combat, how many actually shot down enemy a/c? With your reasoning, we really should get rid of the 262.  

Now your grasping for straws stay on topic. Better still read the links I posted argue with German crews that did not want to fly it because it was a death trap.

Facts are very hard things just to forget about.

[lyric1]

It did work.  Reliable compared with some other aircraft...no, but it did work.

So...whats your point?

and by work..It flew, it dropped bombs, it shot at enemy fighters, it crashed some, it prolly shot something down...etc...uhh what are you looking for here?

...or are you just defending a point because you made it?  Might be an unpopular aircraft from their crew standpoint, but...HEY we dont have that problem!  So again  whats your point?

Have it in game I don't care just design it like the pig it was.

We have asked for the He-111 for many many years now do we have it No.

So good luck seeing this included any time soon.

[33Vortex]

Facts are very hard things just to forget about.

Fact: AH is a game in which the He177 would make a valued contribution.

[MK-84]

Have it in game I don't care just design it like the pig it was.

We have asked for the He-111 for many many years now do we have it No.

So good luck seeing this included any time soon.

I never asked for it soon
I did state that I would like to see it eventually
The He-111 has nothing to do with this post
I think it fills a bomber gap in terms of performance (in our game)
It would be fun to fly

[olds442]

i full heartly agree that the HE-111 is needed first but it would be unused in the MA this bomber could be used by the  luft boys.